Are CD-Rs brighter than the original CD?

You're right, I would also add that they calibrate themselves to each blank disc ,
which is great given that there are differences in dyes, etc from batch to batch.

Using Plextors, I have used all sorts of blank media, from no-name el cheapos to the most expensive Kodak, and have never had a bad burn that wasn't due to some stupid mistake I made (e.g. hitting 'cancel' during the burn by accident). All of my discs play on all players I've tried them on -- car CD, home CD, DVD-A , DVD-V, discman.

 

I know I said I would not comment on the subject again, but I should say this about computer copying.

When I copy a CD on a PC I do not go CD-CD-R. That would involve using the CD ROM, most of which don't exactly perform well with DAE. I use my burner to rip the CD onto the hard drive as a disc image. The burner does perfect DAE-I tested it with special software to verify this-so I use that. Then I copy the DISC IMAGE onto a CD-R.

Perfect copy. They sound the same. There is no jitter, analog, soundcard, or conversion involved.

This worrying about bit-for-bit perfection is really unfounded.

 

Re: One more thing

I'd speculate that the problems you are experiencing here is either difference in read and/or write offset differences between players, bad tracking due to a CDR that has been ripped and/or written either too fast for the hardware or media, or, as you stated, the reflective properties of the media in conjuction with the player's laser power.

Let's not forget that if Joe Blow copies his best friend's new CD and his read/write offset is not set correctly, and then Joe Blow's next door neighbor copies that CDR with a different configuration of offsets, and by the time I finally get it in the mail and play it on my boombox or make a copy of it for you there's no telling what this thing's gonna do...

And while I'm pretending...it was was Elvis 24K Hits that someone sent me a copy of.... hint

 

Hi,

Smart money wins again! Don't think ya can beat Vegas putting your money on long shots.

-Jeffrey

 

Because during the mastering, A/D conversion is involved. Let us assume that this is done with a high quality A/D convertor, better than the one you have in your computer. Good.
This doesn´t mean that your computer isn´t able to copy the digital data verbatim from the source audio CD to the destination audio CD-R. As long as the device that you use to read the CD is able to properly read all data on the CD, and the writer is able to write that data, and the final CD player is able to read that data, there is no loss whatsoever. No converters involved.

 

I don't get it. I don't gamble.

 

Grant,

I think Jeffrey is referring to your statement about not posting again, when in fact that's what you did. The "smart money" said you would.

 

I have heard of cases where a change of polarity occurred during the process. Contact the vendor of your software for an explanation.
I know a little tool for the PC that will compare an audio CD to an CD-R. It´s German, but I think it is pretty self-explanatory.

http://home.t-online.de/home/Joern.Fiebelkorn/cdvergleich.htm

 

Hi Grant,

That's good that you don't gamble. It's mandatory that the horse doesn't bet.

-Jeffrey

 

Man, if I'd known what I was getting involved in, I wouldn't have aided and abetted. Really sorry, Grant!

 

Hi Jason & Grant,

No, no, no!!! The use of the word "horse" was meant strictly for illustration purposes (many people bet on horse races) and could have just as easily been "athelete","player", etc. The smart money was betting on what Grant would do and thus Grant is not allowed to bet just as a basketball player is not allowed to bet in a game that he is playing in.

Peace,
Jeffrey

 

Yeah? Well don'y bet that i'll post on that "vinyl vs. master tape" thread anymore! It's just a broken record there. I'm waiting for repeated posts now.

 

Don't tell Pete Rose that!

 

Grant, you buy Jeffrey's disclaimer?

 

Grant,

You mean like this threads becoming.

 

There was an experiment done (I am trying my hardest to find the thread again) where an original CD was copied 100 times over... 1st copy was copied onto the 2nd copy, the 2nd onto the 3rd..etc etc. (as in 'chinese whispers').
The 100th copy was then compared to the original, with blind folded listeners, and guess what???
Well you can guess the answer. The only real way to find the true answer, but the flaw being they didn't use 100 systems!!

 

Krab...a lot of new CDRs come with 'burn-proof' technology. I just bought a TDK Velo-CD drive yesterday for $99 and it incorporates this technology. It also burns at 32X, re-write burn at 10X and rips at 40X. This will be my 4th unit plus one standalone...I burn the lasers out so quickly!

 

I believe that if you record in 'listen' mode on most models the digital recording is converted to analog before it is reconverted to digital for CDR processing. I have only used a couple of models and this seems to be the case.

Standalone CDRs are made by design NOT to make a perfect digital copy. You can thank the record companies for that twist of compromise!

 

Or at least the incoming digital data is sample rate converted on most counsumer standalone recorders.

Some Philips standalone recorders do indeed convert any incoming digital stream to analog, reduce the frequency range, then convert it back to digital for CD-R. And, yes, consessions to the record companies are to blame for this.

Unless you record througn a computer soundcard, the computer method sidesteps ALL of this crap! Just another reason I prefer the computer method.

 

LOL!!!!

 

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but this is from Stewart Ono, who posted this on a similar thread at the Phonogram list:

------------------------------

For what it's worth: My experience in dubbing on my computer (EZ creator
software) is that when I throw the data into the hard drive the resulting
recording is phase inverted. Darker dye lots seem to sound better: more
detail, crisper highs, less harshness. I used to like the older TDK discs
with the dark green/blue dye lots, not the very light dyes used currently.
The original 74 minute CDR blanks sound better than the 80 minute ones. One
time copy speed results in cleaner recordings with better ambience detail
and a generally more pleasing tonal balance. Curiously, rerecording a higher
speed copy at low speed seems to restore the missing information (jitter in
the burn in process, perhaps?)
I used an HK CDR 30, modified, and then later a CDR 20 when I foolishly sold
my modded 30. However, comparing a stock CDR 20 1X copy to a copy made by a
Hoei Professional 4X duplicator still shows the 1X copy to sound superior.
The new Memorex Cool color disc packs are interesting. Of the colors I've
sampled, the black CDR disc sounds the best and I notice they now sell the
black discs separately. The black discs have a distinctly warmer tonal
balance, although I've only compared it to the blue and purple discs. The
Memorex discs seem to get the color from a dye impregnated into the plastic
substrate and have nothing to do with the actual thermal dye itself. I am
told that the Memorex disc have poorer QC in comparison to the TDK's and
such, but I've no problems so far.

Stu

 

Then he's got a problem with the drive he's extracting from...

 

The only think I can see with anything having it's phase altered is tha the sound is being run through a soundcard of some sort.

Someone here mentioned that tape and CD-R should be the same in that they change sound. No. CD-R and tape are two different animals. Analog tape has magnetic particles arranged by a magnetic influx to store sound. Those particles can be rearranged which will change the sound.

Music is stored on a CD-R as patterns of pits created with a laser burning "pits" in the dye, 0s and 1s. The laser reads these patterns and turns a switch to either on or off. There is no way a dye type can alter a sound stored on it. If something IS changed in some way, there is error correction, so there is no perceptable change in the music. Any change heard is encoded on the disc.

 

Absolute polarity is not inverted if I do a direct copy, hence I doubt if the drive is the problem ( I'm using all HP hardware, BTW, so you would think that compatibility should not at issue here).
Trouble is very few listeners can even hear changes in absolute polarity. In my experience, 95% of the listeners can not hear it, and worse, many prefer the sound to to be reversed in absolute polarity.
As for subtle and not so subtle changes in sound depending on dye lots and types, if you can't hear the difference, then you're lucky. You can get away much more cheaply.
The Hoei SR 4400 I have originally cost something like $7K, although I got it at a much more reasonable price. It's fast but the sound is mediocre. A friend with a full Plextor ROM and CDR drive and a SCSI card found that the HK at 1X speed produced superior sound to his setup, audible even through his computor and of course the HK lists for about $450. I believe he spent well over double that for his CDR setup.

Stu

 

Can someone here tell me exactly HOW a hard drive can switch the polarity of a hard drive??? Can anyone prove this???