Are the 2011 Pink Floyd Remasters considered 'definitive'?

Very true. It's why I like to see 'favorite' sounding over 'best' when it comes to threads asking about a certain pressing or mastering

 

I'm not really sure how digital cuts of albums recorded and mixed AAA originally, could be difinitive in any way at all.

 

I’m looking at buying the 1984 Harvest cd’s with the black faces off Discogs. They were apparently made in Japan and were supplied by EMI. They are pricey and will take a few weeks to arrive. Or I could just buy the remasters for cheaper and get them immediately. What a dilemma

 

I noticed that the OP is only speaking about CD's..... I don't buy CD's (unless I have to) so this is for the vinyl release as far as I'm concerned.

I voted for Piper At The Gates of Dawn, but the MONO reissue that came out for Record Store day this year. The MONO version is the definitive pressing of this album, and was late coming (apart from the CD release). I can only hope they do the same with Saucerful of Secrets

 

In general, I like the '94 Saxes better than the 2016 Guthries.

 

I generally prefer the 2011 masters, but the only ones that are vastly different, and better, for me are Ummagumma and More. I'm not interested in arguing this so don't expect one. I haven't heard a bad master of DSOTM or WYWH.

 

Until 2046, probaly yes.

 

I went a little nuts buying Pink Floyd cd's for a few years...........I'll share some of my faves.....
A Saucerful Of Secrets- I give the edge to the 90's Sax, but the 2011 also sounds nice.
More- The 90's Sax sounds best to my ears
Ummagumma- the original cd has so much tape hiss it's close to unbearable.....the 90's Sax and 2011 sound much cleaner.
Meddle- the MFSL sounds incredible......the 90's Sax and the Japan blackface are not far behind.
Obscured By Clouds- I really like my early Japan.
The Dark Side Of The Moon- I own a bunch, and I find myself listening to the 90's Sax more than any other.
Wish you Were Here- it's true.......the two track sounds awesome. The CK 33453 is right behind.
Animals- the 2011 really shines......I also like the 90's Sax.
The Wall- I absolutely love the C2K 36183
The Final Cut- CK 38243 CBS is crazy good.
A Momentary Lapse Of Reason- The 97 Sax is a little cleaner sounding than my original, and a little warmer than my 2011.
The Division Bell- I love the original Sax.
There are many great sounding Pink Floyd cd's out there......one doesn't have to spend crazy money for a nice sounding collection. Many can be picked up for $5 or less (here in the States). Have fun.....

 

I do not want to give my SQ Take on the versions I own, since I am still working to complete my System, so no information is in my System Profile yet, but I own a few versions of a few PF Albums that you did not even mention.

Along with the below, I did buy the 'Oh By the Way' Box Set about a year before the 2011 Guthrie Reissues, but have kept it sealed, in case I decided to Resell it, although like the idea of the Mini LP Sleeves so might keep it to still have a different sounding version of each Album(or place the 2016 CDs in the Mini LP Sleeves), but seem to recall an overall feedback from others, who own both of these Box Sets, that 'A Saucerful of Secrets', 'More', 'Obscured by Clouds' & 'Animals' were much better sounding on the 2011 Guthrie Reissues.

As far as Albums on CD You did not mention:

What about 'Pipers'? I only own the 2007 Stereo/Mono Reissue, and pretty sure it is the same version(Stereo) that was used for the 2011/2016 Reissues, since it was still recent.

What about Atom Heart Mother? Do you own or have heard the MFSL Ultradisc II-USA(pretty sure there not an Ultradisc-Japan option for this Title like for Meddle & DSOTM)?

You mentioned that for 'Meddle' you liked the MFSL Ultradisc and Japan Blackface(not sure if you meant the Harvest for Europe?), but was curious if you heard both of those versions for DSOTM, even though for that album you prefer the '90s Sax Remaster, and if so, how much do you like those other 2 versions? Also, what about the 2003 Hybrid CD/SACD(for the Redbook CD Version, as not trying to compare an SACD here versus CD).

Are the Sax Versions of Albums you liked as the best option, the same Sax versions that are in the 'Oh By the Way' Box Set? I thought I read that there were a few Sax Versions for some of the Titles on CD from the 1990s.

 

"Definitive" is a rather dangerous term when it comes to remasters. Genesis released a series of "definitive remasters" in 1994 only to have another crack in 2007/8 which, as most on these forums know, turned out to be ever so slightly controversial.

IMO, all too many opportunities have been missed in the Floyd catalogue for top quality remasters. Personally, purely in the context of remastering, I like the 2011 versions of "Wish You Were Here", "The Wall", "The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn" and "A Saucerful Of Secrets". But, as this thread already shows, many feel strongly that the 2011 CD of "The Wall" is not so great.

Some Floyd albums that REALLY grate (in the context of remastering) are "Animals", "Meddle", "AMLOR" and "The Division Bell". For me, the power of the material on Animals has always been let down by a mediocre mix and some poor mastering / remastering - here's hoping the forthcoming surround release comes with a new stereo mix properly mastered. The 2011 version of Meddle is like mud (in relative terms) and the infamous audio artefact at the beginning of Echoes on that release is unforgivable and the failure to complete the new mixes for official inclusion in the 2016 Early Years package was just insulting. IMO, the 1989 MFSL "gold" remaster of Meddle is, overall, a much nicer listen than the 2011 remaster. The original AMLOR CD always sounded thin to me and the 2011 remaster definitely sounded warmer but at the cost of some clarity on the vocals - definitely another album that would benefit from a quality remix. The Division Bell is trickier. I really like the 2011 "sound" but, as with AMLOR, some of the vocal clarity has been sacrificed.

As for "The Dark Side Of The Moon", a brilliant mix that has been given countless remaster makeovers of varying quality. Some sound as if an arbitrary blanket or three has been thrown over the audio whilst I can't for the life of me fathom what has been done to others to make such a great mix sound clearer whilst lacking cohesion all at the same time. On balance, just, my personal preference is for the 1988 MFSL "gold" remaster but whether that makes it a "definitive" / "best" remaster is open to a never ending debate.

The next step for the relentless Pink Floyd / Warner commercial machine (semi pun intended) is obvious: roll on the Steven Wilson remasters and remixes (although, there would have to be some infuriatingly inexplicable omissions to maintain the historical frustration of Floyd fans)... Yes, sucker that I am, I'd be in .

Edits: typos

 

Imagine if Steven Wilson remixed all the Floyd albums. That would be amazing.

 

Sorry for the late reply.........but life gets in the way of the forum sometimes. I really like the 2011 Guthrie reissues of Saucerful, More, Obscured, and especially Animals......in fact, Animals may be the best I've heard on any digital format. Of course this is all subjective, and there may be one mastering I prefer over another, but I don't feel the need to label any definitive.
I only have one cd of Piper (1990 US Capitol) which is the reason I didn't comment.
I also only have 0ne cd of Atom Heart Mother.......it's the 2011 which sounds good to my ears. I'm not sure why I only have one copy??? Perhaps I will run into the MFSL for cheap and snag it (by the way I've heard good things about the sonics with that title)
We can open up a big ole can of "something" dishing on The Dark Side Of The Moon........That title always stirs up controversy. I have heard many different digital masterings over the years, and I do own the 30th anniversary SACD. It's a fun listen if you have the right set up.....I throw it on ever so often, but I seem to like the good ole fashioned redbook better. I have a good friend who thinks I'm loony when I mention the Sax......We've had some good natured arguments while drinking a few beers over Dark Side. Of course he claims the Black Triangle non TO is the best sounding on the planet. It's all good and fun.

 

Yes, the 2011 cd’s are the best sounding versions Pink Floyd have ever released. The 2011 cd’s are the definitive versions.

 

In your opinion
They are not for me

 

Definitive? In some cases, possibly but they have to looked at disc by disc.

However, at the very least they are solid. There's not a bad disc in the bunch.

 

Sorry, I failed to answer two of your Dark Side questions...........I have heard the Japan for US blackface and the MFSL......I sold the MFSL some years ago, and I kind of wish I hadn't. Some have criticized the MFSL for different EQ choices.....however, it does have a comforting warm sound. The Japan blackface is nice....sounds very similar to my US silverface.

 

None. I prefer Shine On/1994 releases. MFSL Meddle.

 

The Japan blackface DSOTM is definitive. The MFSL The Wall is THE version.

 

I bought in the past year both the MFSL Ultradisc and Japan for EU Blackface(Non TO), and like the MFSL better, and was thinking I could sell the Japan for EU Blackface(Non TO) to help pay for other Music, as could get some good money(no pun intended) for it, but think I want to wait until I can complete my System to compare both CDs on there(or just nice to have both options and I like the Guthrie Remaster). I bought an Oppo 105D Used in NM Condition, and my Speakers are Monitor Audio Bronze 2(recommended to me by a Music Engineer, as Really Good Speakers for the price at $390 a pair). Still will need to decide on my Amp/Receiver, as if going 2 Channel, will get the Outlaw 2160 based on the great reviews for the price point. However, now own several 5.1 Discs, so might get an AV Receiver/Amp(looking at a Yamaha in the $600 range(forget the model #).

 

I think overall they are great if you don't want to sink a good amount of time and money into rare or OOP discs. I tend to prefer the 2011s for all the albums probably except for DSOTM. For that one, I have heard them all and I like the MFSL best.

 

Mmmm......To me the the 1994 remaster of "The Wall" sounds the same as the 2011 remaster. They sound identical to me. Maybe the new one is more ahh...Spicy...Whatever that means. It hard to put into words...More zip. But the old packaging is better with a proper place to hold your compact disks instead of scratching you disk every time you slide the disk in and out. Nit picking here. But I really do miss the superior disk packaging of old.


But then has anyone heard A bad Pink Floyd CD?

On the other hand the original 1984 Capitol Records, Dark Side Of The Moon CD is very obviously harsh and brittle on peaks. And that's on my Moon CD-1.

 

I will give my Walls another listen but to me the new remaster of The Wall sounds the same as the 1994 remaster. So question...If the new Wall sucks what "sucks" about it? "Sucks" doesn't tell us anything. It just says you don't like it. It's a phrase all of the under 30 kids use these days for everything.

And the original Capitol Pink Floyd albums were made with a Sony PCM 1600. I work in the business and I can tell you the mere mention of the 1600 brings laughter. Most of the disks made during the first 3 years of the CD are abysmal. The original Capitol early 80's disks is clearly harsh during loud passages and DSOTM is one of them.

How many members on here have heard a master tape let alone a Pink Floyd master tape?
If the vinyl album is your reference that is a fallacy. You have no idea what the master sounds like so you can't make a comparison. A lot of compromises are made in cutting vinyl. But my guess is the 1994 remasters would be the most faithful. No EQ, compression or other silly decisions. Where as today very few mastering engineers can leave well enough alone. Except for Steve.

I know the guys at Das Boot Mastering. They wouldn't fool with The Wall. But they might add some slight EQ on the top end. We are talking about 1.5 db here at the most. Nothing that would change the tonal balance. And this would be EQ changes using the Manley Massive Passive all tube passive mastering EQ unit. ($7000 CAN ) This isn't some harsh digital mastering Eq we are talking about. Some might be sensitive to small eq changes but a db here or there using The Massive Passive wouldn't make it "suck".....Or would it? M mmmm?

But then that's my opinion.

 

The Black Triangle would be from a copy tape which would explain the somewhat diminished bottom end you are hearing. However, rumour has it that the Japanese affiliate labels use to request that the copy tapes be made on half inch tape at 30 ips (no NR) as opposed to the industry standard of the quarter inch copy at 15 ips (Dolby A ). And at that tape width and speed the copy of the master would be a perfect copy of the master. And of course half inch tape at 30 ips has a sound all if it's own - NICE!! This would explain how the Japanese CD's and records could sound better than their overseas counterparts. But then the bass should be the same if it was a half inch tape at 30 ips copy. Unless the engineer brought it down in mastering. And from what I have heard Japanese engineers don't reduce bass unless it's technically necessary. In this case it's probably a quarter inch tape 15 ips (Dolby A) copy.

 

No they are not in my opinion
I love some black triangles.
Some Mfsl
And wish you were here 2 track.
For a momentary lapse of reasons I like the Columbia U.K. CK 68518

 

I am so sorry, sometimes I am prone to hyperbole. I am not very fond of the new remaster because of mildly squished dynamics. It is not really that bad compared to other modern remasters, but I do not like the effects of the compression used on this remaster. Also the eq was a little to bass heavy for my tastes. But then again, they might work for others here.

My favorite version of this title is the one that I bought back when my kids were just little brats. It is the Columbia CD, CK 36183, Made In Japan by Denon, pressed by Nippon. It is my go-to version.

Pink Floyd - The Wall

It is clean, wide, big and dynamic. The bass seems just so natural and the treble is very organic.