I agree with this. I always meant to compare it to the 40th anniversary version, but have never gotten around to it.
I would add that Japanese record companies have sometimes made the claim (not about the Bowie tapes specifically) that in many instances, their copy tapes are in better condition than the original EQ'd master tapes located overseas. That could be true, I suppose.
yes, i think the bump in level is exactly what leads people to make a knee-jerk "this sounds better" response so often (and by extension pretty much explains the origin and continuance of "the loudness wars"). level matching is essential for any fair comparison. oddly enough the R32P of Young Americans has peak-limiting on several tracks (one of the earliest instances i would think), and Suffragette City on ZS has some too. STS and ChangesOneBowie do not. the R32Ps are attractive for their superior print quality (and unique reframing on STS and YA) and yes, those fold-in obis. my ZS is sadly lacking its obi but prices are currently insane so i can't see replacing my obi-less edition any time soon. (if anybody reading this is not so attached to their obi, i'd pay $75 for that little piece of paper in top condition.)
Hi Karmaman I mentioned previously that I think my RCA's are Japan for Europe as they sound like as you describe in that article. Would you know if this is the version that was sold in Australia? How can I check to be sure - as I only listen to streamed files these days but out of interest, someday I'll unpack the boxes that have been stored away and have a look. Btw, the LPs I have of the same two albums (Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust) are early Australian releases with red labels, so I presume they are the same press as the UK releases?
there are only a few Japan for Europe editions and Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust are among them. Japan for US or Germany for Europe only for HD and add a Japan for Japan for Ziggy. from your description i think you have the Japan for US Hunky Dory. i can't recommend that one due to too much tape damage and the ultra-bright second half. the Japan for US Ziggy is fine, there's not much to choose between the three RCA ZS. blue stripes at the top of the spines for European editions, red/orange stripes for the US. the labels will also provide country of manufacture. Japanese-made discs have a clear plastic centre hub, German discs are solid aluminum. i wouldn't be so sure. unfortunately i don't have either in australian editions to confirm. the quickest way to check Ziggy is to play Starman and see if it has the loud "morse code" section. if it does then it's the UK source.
What you are quoting has nothing whatsoever to do with UK Bowie vinyl, Bowie CDs made from claimed master tapes, or anything close to that - its Steve talking generally about why he prefers so many of the early CDs. And I happen to concur wholeheartedly with him. Its why I prefer the RCA Bowies over the later remasters. Also, vinyl and CD have no dynamic range. None. Thats in the media. Quoting our host again, vinyl has up to 75 db and CD something like 96 db. Theres just one big problem with that. No pop or rock music (let alone much music at all) comes close to having that sort of range. Its unpleasant to listen to. People seem to believe that if a rock recording with say max 20 db range is transferred to media like CD, it miraculously 'turns into' a higher range. Its also true that analog tape and vinyl under good circumstances is more resolving and provides greater detail than digital. It means that CDs are inferior in that regard. Some people have hearing discriminating enough to hear this. Some don't.
the Au20s are only "better" than the regular Rykos if you think louder = better. the claim on the packaging that no limiting was used is also a lie, plain and simple. i'd post waveforms, but we all know where that gets us. no point providing hard evidence when the Ryko apologists are out in force.
Agree with everything you say except for the bold bit. That is not technically possible. You need to factor in that digital is quite linear across the frequency range whereas analog tape and vinyl generally is not. Assuming same master source and same care in implementation, what some claim is greater detail is usually the effects of masking and exaggeration of various frequencies which can make some detail more prominent, at a cost of loss of other detail or, for example sibilance. You can get a similar effect with an equaliser. There is some music in the classical genre that have a dynamic range of just over 100db, but you are right, they are the exceptions.
Thanks for that. Just listened to Starman and it does have the "morse code" section but it is not loud, in fact it is softer than the adjacent parts of the song. I suppose the only way to be really sure is to dig out the CDs from the boxes. edit - sorry, I now realise you were referring to the LP with regard to the morse code, and yes the record has that too.
there is no digital version of Ziggy with the loud morse code section in Starman. until 2015 the version didn't exist on digital at all, but is now available on the new box set (Re:Call) and the Nothing Has Changed compilation.
I don't know about ryko apologist. When I think of terrible mastering of a CD I think of Iggy's version of Raw Power The rykodisc are far from that.
nobody compared them to Raw Power. the fact is that they claim to have had no limiting applied. that is a false claim. to defend a falsehood when faced with evidence to the contrary makes one an apologist does it not?
R32Ps rarely appear on eBay complete with obi. in store (i've seen maybe half a dozen in the past few years) a few years ago they were in the 12,000 yen range. the last time i saw ziggy with an obi it was a staggering 75,000 yen, in disk union shinjuku. i read it as 7,500 when i saw it and was walking around the store with it in my basket thinking i'd found a "bargain". thankfully i noticed my error before embarrassing myself at the counter. NB: just remembered that a sealed R32P ziggy sold on yahoo auctions here in 2010 for 122,000 yen. i think that sale inspired the price hike. i don't think there's a CD in the world i'd pay that for.
Yep, Japan for USA. I just had to retrieve the CDs for my own curiosity, luckily they were near the top of the first box I opened. The disc has a blue circle around the top (cant see any stripes at the top of the spines) and Made in Japan, clear hub and printed in the USA covers. Same with Ziggy. I also found the same RCA copy of Fashion and Fame which I forgot I had and will shortly rip to the rest of my music collection. Thanks for all this information!
No argument from me if that's what is being said. I think your hard on them though. My point was more that they are not as bad as you make out. Bringing up Raw Power I just mean I've heard a heck of a lot worse.
Hmmmm. Do this experiment. Get a very clean NM vinyl classical record with a lot of quiet passages. For example Ravel- Bolero by Minnesota Orchestra. The noise CLEARLY overwhelms the music. This noise is also there on the louder passages but in this case is overwhelmed by the music so you hear it less, but it is a vinyl artefact that is always present. It is not present AT ALL on CD. By the way the s/n ratio of vinyl is closer to 60DB than 75DB.
as bad as i make out? i don't think i make any false claims, i just say i don't like them and i give my reasons. but i think you just summed up the common defense of the Rykos: "I've heard a heck of a lot worse" is damning with faint praise. this can be added to the list of attributes such as, "the artwork is better", "they're better than the 1999 remasters", and "i keep them for the bonus tracks." i've said this before, but for the record, i have a full set of Rykos including the Au20s and their vinyl. i used to like them.
Pretty much. I tried this, back when the RYKOs were new. It helped but I was never really satisified. I suggest that you give that a try and see what you think.
meaning the pdf i put together? no, that was only comparing the RCAs. nobody's accusing the Au20s of being brickwalled, but each is louder than its standard edition counterpart and this required them to be peak limited. that line really should have been removed from the sleeve blurb, although i doubt they expected people to be looking at waveforms when they printed it.
Well I beg to differ, half an hour ago I listened to Starman on the RCA CD and it has the morse-code section. Having said that, I'm hoping we are referring to the same thing... is it the di di di di - di di di di just before "there's a starman..."?
they all have the section, but it's the loud mix of that section that differentiates the two masters.
