Are the Bowie RCA CD's worth getting?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LadyGrinningSoul, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Heh, I just saved myself about twelve hours of hair-pulling tedium by using my brain. Maybe I should try that more often. (Using the brain, I mean, not pulling out my hair.)
     
  2. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I'm down to about 10 songs left to do (probably 90-95% done, not including the tutorial video). The most tedious edits are behind me; all that's left is three "Space Oddity" fixes, four "Changes" fixes, and a handful of other scattered edits that are so easy that I'm deliberately saving them for last.

    I can't make any promises on when the whole thing will be done and uploaded, but I'm hoping it will be before the end of the month. Mid-July last year is when I first fell in love with these CDs and started buying them at an alarming rate, sharpening my editing skills trying to improve them; I think the one-year anniversary of that, showing just how far I've come with my audio skills (I rarely, if ever, used EQ before becoming obsessed with these CDs, for instance) will be a good deadline to aim for.
     
  3. footprintsinthesand

    footprintsinthesand Reasons to be cheerful part 1

    Location:
    Dutch mountains
    To make this a rewarding effort for you and other fans I think the success depends on how dummy-proof the tutorial is, in order for people to consider doing it and make it work.

    Before making the final tutorial maybe it's best to have one or two fans without any experience with the required software try fixing one cd from scratch, an easy one. I guess fans would have to at least own the RCA disc, so it starts with ripping in best quality - default or custom settings ? - and replacing or adding parts from your download of fixes in audio software using certain settings. Will repuired EQ have already be done on the fixes so it matches the EQ on the bulk ?

    Their feedback will be valuable for your definitive tutorial.
    Wishing you success with the finalization.
     
    InStepWithTheStars likes this.
  4. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    All of the samples have EQ, volume, and timing adjustments done. There are a few songs where the user will need to apply the EQ themselves (volume adjustment is built into the EQ for the quickest, easiest results), but images will be provided for the settings to plug into a 31-band EQ (stock with most DAWs). Everything else has all the files provided to isolate the sections that need changing right away. A few pages back I posted a tutorial (and files) on how to fix the PCD1-0998 "Young Americans" intro.

    But your comment is very much appreciated. Anyone who wants to test these fixes out in advance, let me know!

    As for dummy-proof, I'm a dummy myself so it should be easy... but maybe it won't be, who knows? I plan on tailoring the video to people who have never used a DAW before, yet at the same time, trying to keep it from being overly tedious to people who have.

    Basically, if your DAW allows you to snap your selection to the beginnings/ends of tracks, and it has a 31-band EQ, you should be able to knock out 99% of these edits. For the other 1%, you will need a program that can read basic text files and you also need to understand English - there's a few instructional documents which say "fix the intro before you adjust the EQ, because the intro correction file is based on the flawed EQ".
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  5. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I've been listening to the European ChangesTwoBowie CD (PD84202), and I cannot shake the feeling that there's something going on with "Ashes To Ashes". It almost sounds to me like there's a tiny bit of reverb over the master mix. But I'm wondering if it's just EQ that's making me think that. It's hard to compare because it leans to the right channel. I EQ-matched both channels individually, but I still can't shake the feeling that there's something going on with that CD, because it doesn't sound like the other seven (!) RCA CDs it appears on.

    ChangesTwo uses the single version. Did the single version have a little bit of reverb? Based on the US ChangesTwo, it just sounds like edits done to the original album version with no additional processing. If the single version had reverb, then it would explain that fade-up and suggest that whoever edited it had a "dry" and a "wet" version, and they somehow both ended up being used for the two territories' RCA CDs. That would be strange, but it would suggest that the European CD is actually the right one.

    Or maybe I'm just going crazy and a little tiny EQ difference that I can't pinpoint is completely throwing me off. The thing that sounds like reverb to me seems to come and go throughout the song.
     
  6. L.P.

    L.P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austria
    From a macroeconomical point of view: absolutely!
     
  7. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Okay, all of my edits are done, as well as the other files and documentation... the only thing left to do is record and edit the tutorial video. But, frustratingly, I'm running into technical difficulties with my computer, so I can't do that. :disgust: I was hoping to have everything uploaded before the end of the month, but that probably won't happen now - I do not want to rush the tutorial!
     
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  8. Take your time, there's no rush.
     
  9. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Is that a disguised way of saying "no one cares"? :p

    I fully realize there aren't many people who will use this, but if even one person is able to get more enjoyment out of their music collection because of this, I'll be happy.
     
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  10. I think many are looking forward to your efforts.
     
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  11. John Hatter

    John Hatter Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    “One utterly irredeemable one (Space Oddity)”...? IMHO the sound of the RCA CD of this album is very close to the vinyl. Sounds good to me, but my ears are old.
     
  12. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    He was referring to the Parlophone remaster. Not the RCA cd.
     
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  13. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Correct. The Parlophone has horrendous digital stretching artifacts on "Space Oddity" and "Cygnet Committee", and a tasteless splice in "Memory Of A Free Festival" that turns "God's land" into "God... land". This is on top of tape damage affecting nearly every song, and bass-heavy EQ that totally flies in the face of the hippie-folk-guru vibe of the album. Shamefully, though, it has the best digital version of "Don't Sit Down" - all other editions have noise reduction of some type present.

    The RCAs aren't without problems (I personally prefer the WG), but they're by far the best digital option. I believe the Conversation Piece box set uses the same mastering as the 2009 deluxe edition, which is probably the second best option for the album after the RCAs. However, it's fairly bright and has a decent amount of noise reduction.
     
  14. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I do want to reiterate: the Parlophone remasters for Pinups and The Man Who Sold The World are very, very good, comparable to the RCAs (in fact, I think Pinups is actually a little bit better than the RCAs). Their remasters of Hunky Dory and Diamond Dogs are also quite good, but there's some tape damage and digital edits in the former and some distortion during "Sweet Thing" in the latter; if you don't want to spend $50 each on the RCAs (WG for Hunky Dory, Japan for Diamond Dogs), they are acceptable alternatives. The 2012 remaster of Ziggy has the best EQ of any digital edition, but unfortunately was subject to some ugly, ill-fitting compression (the 2012 vinyl edition has full dynamic range). And David Live from the Who Can I Be Now? box set is the best digital mastering of the album (original mix). Outside of that, well, I kinda like the darker EQ approach on Scary Monsters, but the compression kills it, and there's the aforementioned best digital version of "Don't Sit Down"... but, yeah, that's about it as far as praise for Parlophone goes. :sigh:
     
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  15. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    The parlophone "Aladdin Sane" isn't one?
     
  16. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    It's been ages since I listened to it (and I didn't listen for long), but I'm fairly certain the Parlophone Aladdin Sane is widely considered the worst mastering of that album. It's definitely the loudest. It might have preferable EQ to the Ryko and Virgin masters, but it has the most compression.

    By contrast, the two RCA masters are among the best-sounding CDs ever manufactured. If I were to rank Bowie's RCAs in terms of sound quality, both versions would easily place in the top ten, possibly both in the top five. They sound incredible.
     
  17. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    For those who don't want to spend absurd amounts on the RCAs, here's a list of the best alternatives. Please note that "best" does not necessarily equal "good". I'll be explaining why the RCA is preferred regarding each title, so if you just ask yourself "Can I live with this?" to each criticism, it can hopefully save you some money. Also, seek out the blind listening tests by forum member @Tsomi - there are samples provided for every release of six different albums, which can help you determine which versions you like or don't like, or whether you agree or disagree with my assessment.

    Space Oddity - 2009 EMI deluxe edition. I believe this same mastering is also included as part of A Conversation Piece, but I'm not 100% positive on that. A solid remaster with good dynamics, but the EQ is a touch bright, and there is some noise reduction present.

    The Man Who Sold The World - 2015 Parlophone remaster. This is similar to the WG RCA, with a very bass-heavy presentation. There are no major problems with this one, but in my opinion, it's too muddy on too many songs. I have the same problem with the WG RCA.

    Hunky Dory - 2015 Parlophone remaster. This sounds quite a bit like the WG RCA (and much better than the Japan for US RCA). However, there is some tape damage, especially on "Changes", and some clicks, lip smacks, and studio noise have been digitally edited out.

    Ziggy Stardust - 2012 EMI/2015 Parlophone remaster (same audio). Apart from "Five Years" (which is very muddy), this CD has the best EQ of any digital version of Ziggy - better than the RCAs! The problem is that they fed it through a Fisher-Price® My First Compressor™ after applying that lovely EQ, and all the punch of the album is just robbed. There's no one single great CD version of Ziggy, unfortunately.

    Aladdin Sane - 1990 Rykodisc/EMI. I don't actually have the full album, but the tracks from the Ryko Sound+Vision box set sound surprisingly good. Assuming the mastering is either identical or very similar, you just need to add some EQ in the 80-150 Hz range (1 or 2 dB), and you should be good.

    Pinups - 2015 Parlophone remaster. No reservations here - this is actually better than the RCA. Yes, you read that right.

    Diamond Dogs - 2016 Parlophone remaster. The EQ is pretty good, but the stereo is a little bit wonky and there's some distortion in "Sweet Thing" not present on any other mastering. I think a few tape noises were also removed (like at the beginning of "Big Brother"), but I'm not totally positive on that.

    Young Americans - there isn't really a good alternative. The Ryko has alternate mixes of "Win", "Fascination", and "Right"; the 1999 Virgin is the 1999 Virgin; the 2007 remaster has really bad EQ (and I believe someone said there's some digital reverb added to the master - if true, yuck!); the 2016 Parlophone remaster is muddy and compressed. The Ryko is probably the best option.

    Station To Station - 2010 EMI box set. This is a flat transfer (aside from topping and tailing). It sounds lovely. The super deluxe box has that master as well as the WG RCA mastering - in my opinion, the single best Bowie RCA CD. But if you don't have the super deluxe set, just look for the smaller set.

    Low, "Heroes", Lodger, Scary Monsters - 1990 Rykodisc/EMI. Those are the best of a bad lot. The 1999 Virgins are the 1999 Virgins, and the 2017 Parlophone remasters are compressed messes replete with digital errors.​
     
  18. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    For any other artist I wouldn’t bother editing files, but it’s Bowie. It’s a crime how few of his classic albums have good, let alone great digital releases. The only two that are beyond reproach IMO are the hi-res of Station to Station (original mix) from the 2010 box and the Parlophone Pin-Ups. I do also love the Black Triangle of Let’s Dance.
     
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  19. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    Wow I would’ve thought the 2003 Deluxe Edition Aladdin Sane would be the worst mastering.
     
  20. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I'm not totally sure but I believe that's identical to the 1999 Virgin mastering. I know that's the case for Diamond Dogs.
    Those two are exceptional. I've not heard the black triangle, I only have the other CDP mastering, which sounds pretty damn good IMO. (I only like "Cat People" from that album, so it's not one I reach for often.)
     
  21. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    You might have the black triangle mastering. It’s not unique. Check the matrix code in your disc for CP35 (if I recall correctly).
     
  22. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    No, it's not. Mine has multiple peaks at the 0.0 mark on every track (or at least most of them). If I remember right, the black triangle mastering peaks at like -6 or something ridiculously quiet like that. It would be an easy fix, of course.
     
  23. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    That’s the one track I always skip. I got the Cat People soundtrack to get the one true version of the song.
     
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  24. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ha, I think the soundtrack version sucks! The album version rocks the house. I think the album as a whole is a waste, but the re-recorded "Cat People" is in my top five Bowie tunes. Go figure.

    Actually, that's a bit harsh. The soundtrack version isn't bad, nor is the entire Let's Dance album (though there are some true duds on it). But I just don't have fun listening to either. But the album version of "Cat People" is seriously one of my favorite recordings by anyone.
     
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  25. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    Stevie Ray’s guitar heroics really liven it up :agree: Personally, I go back and forth on which version I prefer. Happy to listen to either.
     
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