Are you willing to spend 17k$ on speaker blind?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by thomaskong, Mar 30, 2019.

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  1. Larry Mc

    Larry Mc Forum Dude

    I won't anything without a return policy of some kind.

    I'd love to listen to music on your system......................:)
     
  2. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    IMO, none of the videos posted here are doing them any favors :hide:.
     
  3. slovell

    slovell Retired Mudshark

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    No way.
     
  4. Stump

    Stump Forum Resident

    Location:
    Adelaide Australia
    Here is a reply from a Norway Owner which mentioned Avantgarde Speakers.

    Hello! That's right, I have the LM Audio LM-3 speakers now with the LM G212 amps. They both sounded beautiful, but the LM speakers is something else, they have a sound I really enjoy.. I got "bored" with the Avantgarde sound after a while, I had the Avantgarde Uno Nano, so they are really small compared to the LMs! I've never felt the lack of power with any of them with the G212s[​IMG]
    Best regards
    Erik - Norway
     
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  5. SJP

    SJP Forum Resident

    Location:
    Anaheim
    This is such a first world problem, not to mention flying overseas to see one's dentist. All in just over 60 hours!
     
  6. gov

    gov Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Metro
    Never count another man’s money....
     
    Spin Doctor and Done A Ton like this.
  7. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    The one thing about the mono amps at $60,000 is that they were being sold new for $25,000 when Steven Rochlin (editor of enjoythemusic) covered them. An LM dealer here noted that the amplifier is quite noisy. So perhaps they had trouble selling these if it is true that they stopped production - I do not see them on the LM website.

    I understand going to the LM big horns but when it comes to the electronics end of things - you should probably be going for higher end parts quality in SET amplifiers from the likes of Audio Note.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a complete Audio Note system (sans speakers) with the AN Ultra monoblock amplifiers - the three piece power amp are sitting on a rack beside each speaker.

    [​IMG]

    Tranformer

    [​IMG]

    $800,000USD I believe is the list price. But if you want the best - you gotta pays the price :biglaugh: Not made in China either. Chinese made doesn't exactly have that prestige factor.
     
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  8. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    I did not pull the trigger for LM3 before expiry of sale.

    1. After being back to my home, I found my current system to be musical enough to enjoy most of music.

    2. I do not have enough room to have two speakers side by side in my third floor listening space.

    Thus if I get LM3, I have to set up separate listening space in my living room on the second floor.

    It is a lot of work which I require permission from my wife.

    I may have to spend additional 10k$ to buy diamond necklace for my wife to get her permission. ;)

    3. I wish to have a chance to audition it before making purchase.

    Thomas
     
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  9. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    I've heard a number of systems built around a 22a horn, using both Western Electric and non-Western Electric drivers, and I've also heard a number of replica 22a horns. The replica horns actually sound very good. The Line Magnetic horns look good visually, and I think there is a fair chance that the horn works well too. I know several people that have heard their compression driver for the horn and they said that while it doesn't sound terrible, it is not up to the quality of an original WE 555 driver or any number of replica drivers, such as those by G.I.P. I have heard a variety of 555-type drivers, many far cheaper than WE drivers, so I know that there are alternatives that might be used if the Line Magnetic driver does not hold up.

    The Line Magnetic bass cabinet is intriguing to me. It looks somewhat like an Onken bass reflex cabinet (vents along the side), but unlike most Onkens, instead of a front baffle, the woofer is set back in a front horn setup. I like the sound of Onken speakers (bass has good delineation of tone), so I think this speaker would be worth investigating.

    Someone mentioned the use of alnico magnets in Western Electric drivers. I don't know if that is the particular secret sauce for their drivers, but, I happen to own speakers that use alnico magnets and I like their sound. My woofers (twin 12" drivers per speaker) are modern designs, but, they use alnico magnets and old-school pleated fabric surrounds; my midrange is a Western Electric 713b compression driver. Line Magnetic, like G.I.P., have wisely stayed away from trying to replicate Western Electric drivers that have permanent magnets and do replicas that have field coil electromagnets instead. It is far easier to copy field coils, but, the downside is the need for a power supply.
     
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  10. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    LM
    LM3 use permanent alnico magnet.

    They have another model using field coil driver which cost 65K$.
     
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  11. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    Yes, actually a little shrill on the treble for my ears. Perhaps $1K used Cornwall as good?
     
  12. gov

    gov Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Metro
  13. Salectric

    Salectric Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    You just can't generalize about horn speakers like this. It is true that many, many horns do sound harsh and shrill, but not all. The prime example of a smooth sounding horn in my opinion is the Altec 32B which is a small plastic horn with a 90 degree bend. Fitted with an Altec 802-8G driver, this will provide a smooth, detailed, dynamic sound that never sounds harsh. It is also not that hard to find on Ebay and not all that expensive. A genuine Western Electric 32A horn with 713b driver will sound even better but now we are in close to unobtainable territory.
     
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  14. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    I heard some top end bite on the demo.
     
  15. Salectric

    Salectric Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Ah ha! I misunderstood you. Sorry. I thought you were generalizing rather than commenting on the video of the LM speakers. Frankly I didn't even listen to the video since it would be on my phone and that means nothing.
     
    unclefred likes this.
  16. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Now that I know that it is a permanent magnet clone of the 555, I am even more curious as to how it sounds. I have heard Western Electric's permanent magnet 555 (much rarer and more expensive than their more common field coil model) and it is very good sounding--not much is lost in terms of dynamics compared to the field coil. It would be interesting to compare it to other 555 type drivers that also use permanent magnets, such as YL drivers. I like the YLs a lot, so that would be a pretty tough test.
     
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  17. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    This is another quote from the person who had listened to LM3

    I have possibility open for this speaker after I audition it.

    Well, I have heard the full replica system from line magnetic both at shows and at the workshop of AcousticPlan (a high end German electronics maker) and think it’s pretty awesome as long as you don’t get too bothered by a bit of horn colorations. I heard them both with Acoustplan amps and the line magnetic lm 219ia. The AcousticPlan amp was a bit more refined but the big LM219 is a great amp for low money. If I had space for such a big horn it would be on my list to audition at least (although I think I prefer some of the newer, less colored horns like Aries Cerat Symphonia or for a lot less money horns Universum, Tune Audio Anima, Odeon No.38, Dynamikks 12.18 etc.). Still I think this replica of ancient tech has real musical merits and can bring a realism that many less overtly colored simply cannot.
     
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  18. direstraitsfan98

    direstraitsfan98 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    QC
    its actually cheaper to manufacture in poland then china
     
  19. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    I agree with Salectric that a system built around an Altec 802-8G driver and a 32A type horn/compression driver can be an "economical" approach to a terrific horn system. I've heard two commercial systems that used the 802 driver that the makers were selling at over $100k. While the price of these systems did not appear to be commensurate with the cost of the components, I am guessing that the builders were basing their pricing on their estimation of performance. As for the 713b driver/32A combination Salectric mentioned, I have heard that combination sound very good. But, I think that a better combination is the 713a or 713c with the 32A (the bend in the horn tames the 713a's and 713c's slight tendency to sound harsh; the 713b does not need a bent horn because it is not as extended a driver as the other two).

    I own a system that utilizes the 713b driver and a straight horn. It is perhaps my favorite compression midrange driver, but, it has, like all drivers, some shortcomings. First, it is not as extended in range as some other vintage drivers and must be used with a tweeter (the 713a and 713c can be used in a two-way system without a tweeter). It also does not go as deep as other drivers, such as the 555, so it has to be crossed in a bit higher into the midrange. The biggest issue, to me, is that it is a 4 ohm driver, so it is hard to integrate with other typical high efficiency drivers that usually have a higher nominal impedance--the crossover becomes more complex and requires some really big value capacitors (hard to get, particularly if one is looking for real western electric capacitors). Still, this one is a keeper.
     
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  20. Salectric

    Salectric Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Larry, what were the commercial systems you heard that used the 802 and cost over $100K?
     
  21. bluesky

    bluesky Senior Member

    Location:
    south florida, usa
    no - way.
     
  22. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I have had different 800 series Altec driver's and Altec 900 series driver's also.

    Most Altec horns do not sound harsh at all, when properly powered. Which means, not using SS amps, which most people choose to do.

    My main Altec A7's use the 908 series driver, which is a very nice, not harsh sounding driver.

    One of my custom A7's (which I did not build or have built), uses their 902 driver, which I don't particularly care for, as it sounds a bit metallic to my ears.

    There are a lot of people out there that curiously are marketing their versions of the basic A7 type of design and these have some really stupid prices that are not at all commensurate with the cost of the components that are being used.

    This is and has been a mystery to me. You simply don't need to spend stupid money to get excellent sound out of vintage Altec speaker's.

    You do however, need to spend some money, if you expect to have them perform well in a home stereo environment.
     
  23. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Salectric,

    I don't recall who the builders were because the systems, while decent sounding, did not interest me that much. I recall that one used a sectoral horn sitting on top of a plain wood box which held the woofer and tweeter, the other was a much bigger system utilizing a multi-cellular horn. At these kinds of prices, I would expect better sound, particularly because the Altec drivers are capable of delivering very good midrange sound. I might have also expected a step up in drivers to something like YL drivers with 555-type diaphragms or IPC drivers or other more exotic vintage drivers (however, it might be hard to manufacture in any sort of volume if you have to scrounge for drivers). At six figures, it might be unreasonable to expect current manufacturer G.I.P. drivers, which is unfortunate because they are very good.

    I do need to get out more and hear different kinds of drivers because there are all sorts of surprises out there. A young fellow recently showed me an open baffle system he threw together to test a 1960-70 full range driver from Japan (I won't say what brand because he is hunting down more of them). I was surprised by how good it sounds; to me, it is much better than a WE 755 driver (I would still take a 756 or 728) and it is MUCH cheaper.
     
  24. Eyedok

    Eyedok Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wilmington NC
    Absolutely not.
     
  25. Challenger

    Challenger Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lake City, FL, USA
     
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