Artists That Suffered From Van Gogh Syndrome

Where did that previous post compare the Beatles with Queen? Why is music less something to enjoy and more a competition?

Compared with The Beatles EVERYONE comes up a bit short.

Anyhow, by 1988 Queen’s popularity here had certainly faded. But classic rock radio was starting to take off, and the old hits were still being played. And album rock radio was still friendly to songs like “One Vision” and “I Want It All,” both of which I remember getting good airplay for a time. Their Live Aid set only a few years before was certainly seen by many, and highly regarded.

They just didn’t tour the U.S. anymore, but they kept scoring hits and playing stadiums in other parts of the world.

 

Almost like XTC in some ways, although XTC did have genuine commercial success throughout their career, they always seemed at that "on the brink" level as well to me.

 

That they never got really big probably has a lot to do with Andy Partridge.

 

Well of course. In hindsight I should've clarified - I was referring more to their period in the 80s and 90s after their commercial star had seemingly faded. In the late 70s It seems like they were gonna be big but after a certain point it also seems like they just faded back to obscurity like a million other acts.

 

Queen had already dropped significantly in US popularity well before "Break Free" in 1984.

After "The Game" hit #1 in 1980, "Flash Gordon" only made it to #23, and both "Hot Space" and "The Works" peaked in the 20s, too.

"Under Pressure" was #10, and "Body Language" and "Radio Ga-Ga" still made it as top 20 singles, but that was it.

So I don't think the "Break Free" video was the US career-killer it's made out to be. They'd already declined in US popularity before that video existed...

 

Then likewise, those who constantly feel the urge to bring up inane thread topics, ie "Re-sequence a Monkees Album - It's Fun!!" (Yes, somebody really did that, among several other examples). Further, there's this insistence on invoking them in discussions when they're completely irrelevant to the topic. So, those people can just stop...but they won't.

What you and your buddies here need to distinguish is that it's a well and good that some industry people offered some respect to them. The problem is fan behavior.

 

Hell yes, and that movie won many Academy awards and continues to win them even today.

 

It might not be the best movie ever made (in fact, it's not even the best teenage party rock n roll movie) but it was mainstream enough that I knew about it even though I was only 8.

 

Like I said, the Ramones always seemed like a bad fit for pop success - too ugly, too aggressive, too "one-note" in public perception.

But I agree that if they were going to "break through", it would've been in the late 70s. Heck, Joey even asked Springsteen to write a song for them - which he did and then kept for himself!

It seems like the Ramones tried to change somewhat to attain success but they couldn't get there.

Anecdotally, I think their window was closed by the mid-80s. After a while, they started to feel like too much of a novelty act - they never changed their image in any way, so it was like Kiss with the makeup.

It seemed kinda sad to me at the time, but in retrospect, I regret never seeing them live...

 

It is, actually.

 

The Ramones never had a "commercial star", though - at least not in terms of actual sales. Only 2 of their albums even cracked the top 50 in the US!

They did better in the UK, as "End of the Century" at least cracked the top 15 there, but they didn't enjoy sustained commercial success.

I do agree that there was a feeling the Ramones could have attained popular success in the late 70s/early 80s, but they never got there. They were always a cult band - a cult band with more fame than most, but a cult band nonetheless...

 

Well, any movie with the lovely PJ Soles in it gets two extra stars for it in my book.

 

No idea what that snarky comment has to do with my post...

 

I realize she has a following but does anybody actually listen to her hideous caterwauling for pleasure?

 

Which was my point. If the Ramones didn't attain commercial success, it wasn't for lack of trying, and their presence at the core of "RnR HS" fits into that scheme...

 

I don't count myself as a Yoko fan, but she made some good songs. Heck, "Kiss Kiss Kiss" and "Give Me Something" are the 2 best songs on "Double Fantasy"....

 

Easy, dude, we're on the same side.

 

Mostly agreed. But they did drop off the

Perhaps not, but only a few years after “Dust,” and still having some more hits here (Including the #10 with Bowie) up until that time (Including the top 20 “GaGa” that had a popular video), doesn’t strike me as them suddenly going cold. It was more gradual.

The Flash Gordon movie was a dud, and that didn’t help. Hot Space was not all that well-regarded either. So those things probably contributed.

But I remember, as a young kid in Reagan’s America in 1984 that some people did not react well to that video. Personally, I thought it was funny. It was also, apparently base on some UK sitcom or something so any joke the band was making was likely lost on most Americans. But I remember peers saying derogatory things about Freddie after that.

Not saying it was the only cause, just one possible cause among others. That song peaked in the U.S. at #45, and apart from some play on MTV for a bit I don’t think it got much attention anywhere else here (I never heard it on the radio). By contrast, it was #3 in the UK and top 10 or even #1 in several other countries.

Anyhow, they never came back to the States to play and that is really curious. A big tour might’ve helped them. I’d have to think they’d still have drawn reasonably well. But I can’t help but wonder if the backlash by the mid-80s had them thinking they might play to half-empty arenas, and that it just wasn’t worth it anymore?

 

I'm not so sure Drake would qualify as someone who was met with indifference or hostility by the general public. Any lack of commercial success in his lifetime was due to his own reluctance to perform live or give interviews (all due to the fact that he was most likely suffering from a mental illness such as severe depression). That was on him rather than the general public.

Also, I'm not sure that he has "become canonized in the rock pantheon". I would suggest he's never achieved more than a cult following.

 

I think "Rock 'n' Roll High School" is indeed the best teenage party rock n roll movie ever made.

 

See, I differ with you there as Nick Drake was the exact kind of artist I was thinking of when I made this thread. For whatever reasons, mostly personal, Drake never had success when he was alive. Since his death he's become the patron saint of folk singer-songwriters. He's a million times more popular and respected now than he was when he was making his art.

 

Danny Kirwan

 

Hopefully Will Owsley will qualify for this thread one day. I'm waiting for him to become canonized.

Game Theory/The Loud Family (Scott Miller) as well.