AT MONO3/LP informal review

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Angry_Panda, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. Angry_Panda

    Angry_Panda Pipe as shown, slippers not pictured Thread Starter

    I had posted a thread (AT MONO3/LP - looking for input from owners prior to purchase ) requesting information about the Audio-Technica AT MONO3/LP, a cartridge that apparently hasn't figured out how to work the caps lock yet. This came in today, so I figured I'd post a few notes in hopes that someone down the line can benefit in one way or another.

    Disclaimer: I am all thumbs with the cell phone camera, so no pictures (sorry). Also, my setup is good for me at the moment, but I wouldn't make much of a claim to it being high-end audiophile, or even low-end audiophile. My listening room is not good, and in order to get everything I need in there, it's not ideal for placement of speakers and components - the second turntable I got to put this is on (Technics SL-D2 in pretty good shape) is directly behind a speaker, so I'll eventually be doing something about that, but for the moment, it's what I've got to work with.

    I ordered the cart from LP Gear; yes, it cost about half again as much as it would have from a Japanese e-Bay seller, but I've not had great experiences buying anime related knick-knacks from those, so I figured I'd pay a bit more and have a fighting chance at getting customer service if it was needed. Thankfully, it was not. I also got an AT HS10 headshell to mount this on.

    Packaging was good; the cart came mounted on a dummy headshell-shaped piece of plastic with one screw and nut through one mounting hole, and a pin from the piece holding the other hole. The stylus guard is also held on by this assembly, so there is no built-in or snap-on guard for this that works once it's mounted, from what I've been able to figure. Mounting hardware is included (two pairs of screws, nuts, washers, a screwdriver, a brush, and a spacer/weight made of plastic). [anime joke] Instructions and what I'm guessing is a warranty card are also included, but both are in Japanese, and neither subs nor dubs appear to be available, so this otaku will need to wait for the fan translation to come out. [/anime joke]

    Mounting was a bit of a pain - one set of screws was too short for the headshell/cartridge, and the other would have needed to be inserted upside down. Thankfully, the headshell had hardware as well, including a set of screws that was the right length to mount head up without contacting the record surface, and another set of washers. After a bit of fiddling to get everything together (screw - washer - headshell - cart - washer - nut on each side; I'll run this without the spacer for now and see how it does), I managed to get this secured enough to start alignment. The round nuts are not great - I would prefer hex nuts so I can put a thumb on the side while tightening and have a bit more grip on those - but at least those round ones have a screwdriver-sized line across one side so I could get them started without too much more trouble.

    After an alignment, balancing to 2 grams VTF and setting at 2 grams anti-skate, and an eye test to make sure this looked right from the front and the side, I have run a few sides to let this break in a bit. I'll hold my thoughts on the sound until this has had ten hours or so to get settled, but I will note here that the mono switch on the amp has no discernible effect (which seems like what should be the case).

    Thanks to all who posted in the other thread!
     
  2. RONENRAY

    RONENRAY Forum Resident

    Location:
    antwerp belgium
    Think i had the same problem with the screws.
    Waiting for your review:)
     
  3. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    I went with upside-down. :)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Angry_Panda

    Angry_Panda Pipe as shown, slippers not pictured Thread Starter

    I thought seriously about that prior to opening the bag of hardware with the headshell. That wasn't something I was looking forward to, as I am prone to the occasional bout of clumsiness, and I could see my palm/wrist/shirt cuff catching those at some point, with the expected detrimental results. Plus, that makes adjusting the alignment exponentially more difficult, and I am somewhat inclined toward simplicity/laziness. However, I salute you, sir, for being more confident in your abilities than I am in mine.
     
  5. Angry_Panda

    Angry_Panda Pipe as shown, slippers not pictured Thread Starter

    After some noodling to get my listening levels figured out - I do have to juice this a bit on the volume, as it's somewhat low output (1.2 mV) for the 2 mV sensitivity of the inputs it's on - and a good cleaning of the jacks on that input (which I've never used in 20 years of owning this amp - yuck!), and perhaps six or seven hours of play to break in, this seems to have come into its own. So here we go. I figure I'll break this into several parts, based on musical genre, and then wrap with overall impressions.

    Part I - old music by dead Germans.

    Bach's Royal Instrument, E. Power Biggs, Columbia ML 4284 (1950 blue label), side 1: Toccata, Adagio, and Fugue in C Major.

    This is the side where the cart audibly broke in. Over the first play of this side, which began with my initial concerns from the first few hours about the high end being rather absent, it sounded like someone was gradually turning the treble tone control from about -3 to 0. On a second listen to the fugue, this sounds pretty darn good for a disc which is older than my father. No surface noise from the disc at all; mixtures are bright without being shrill; prompt bass on the pedals (or at least as prompt as a 16' pipe can be). The side only uses the outer half to two thirds of the groove space, and on the final chord, there is a bit of distortion, but after A/Bing with the VM540 and headphones, I think that's as much the condition of the disc and/or my setup as anything related to the cart - the 32' C in the pedal seem to be causing some issues regardless of what I do. I have read one or two things over the years that seem to indicate to me that this is an issue with some of the earlier Biggs recordings, and with my having to accommodate the non-RIAA Columbia curve using tone controls, I'm loathe to chalk this up to a fault on the part of the cart.

    Nine Beethoven Symphonies, Toscanini and the NBC SO, RCA Victor LM-6901 (1958 shaded dog), side 14: 9th Symphony, mvmt. 4.

    This was the first side I played once I got this ready for action, and the initial lack of treble concerned me greatly. On a second pass, after break-in, those concerns were abated. The percussion in the Turkish march sounds 'right' without the triangle being too bright, or the bass drum detracting from the winds; the strings have that little bit of scratch on them during the following contrapuntal section; and the choral outburst right after that is full without losing any of the detail in the orchestra. The ending seems a bit choir-forward, as the string figures underneath get lost (particularly the basses and cellos behind the final 'Götterfunken's), but some of that can be attributed to the recording after checking against the VM540. This side is recorded a bit cool; at 23 minutes and change, I'm not surprised, but it does need another full number or so on the volume to get it up to the same level as the other two selections listed here. Again, no surface noise, though in the background of a few quieter sections there is a bit of low rumble that comes and goes - I'd guess this is traffic outside the recording space, based on my experience with recordings from this era. The fact that this is coming through is a plus in my book, as it is on the record rather than a defect of the system. No issues with the inner grooves.

    Schubert's Deutsche Messe - Kyrie and Salve Regina, Theobald Schrems conducting a whole mess of Regensburgers, Deutsche Grammaphon Gesellschaft LPM 18 676 (1961 German pressing), side 2 tracks 6 and 7: Kyrie and Salve Regina.

    Both these pieces are stunning through this cart. No issues with sibilance on the 's'es, and the sound is round without being flabby, with enough of the hall coming through to make itself felt without swamping the choir. Again, no inner groove issues on these tracks. The lack of needle drop and pickup noise is still taking a bit of getting used to, but is welcome (particularly after the conclusion of the Salve Regina). Interesting note: the inner sleeve points out that this record 'can be played only on 33 RPM instruments with a cartridge with microsapphire which puts a pressure of about 8-10 grammes on the record'. Yikes. Let's not do that.

    Overall, for the recordings I pulled for this part, this cart is a welcome option - the knockdown of surface noise compared to the stereo VM540 is the biggest benefit. A bit of the very top end (10kHz and up) still seems to be rolled off, but I can't really complain about the effect on any of these tracks. The impression I get is sitting back somewhat from the performers in a fair sized well-dampened hall - none of these came off as in my face.
     
    Ingenieur, efhjr, JohnO and 3 others like this.
  6. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Not really, I'm just prone to the occasional bout of coordination. It takes me about an hour (with the kids out of the house) for me to install a cart, most of which is spent cursing.
     
  7. Angry_Panda

    Angry_Panda Pipe as shown, slippers not pictured Thread Starter

    Before the next section, a few small oversights on my part that I feel should be corrected.

    The pins on the back of the cart are color coded (via a sticker on the back of the housing); the leads supplied with the headshell went on snugly, but with no difficulty.

    On the Biggs, it occurred to me that the RIAA compensation may be causing issues for the first stage in the amp, since it's applied between the input and the triodes. Switching this from 'phono' to 'tape' (which should nominally be flat) did improve, but not totally eliminate, the distortion on the final chord on both this and the VM540, so I'm calling that in favor of the cart.
    --
    Part II - making a jazz(ish) noise here.

    Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Cole Porter Song Book, Verve MG V-4001-2 (1956 OP), side 1: All Through the Night/Anything Goes/Miss Otis Regrets/Too Darn Hot/In the Still of the Night/I Get a Kick Out of You/Do I Love You/Always True to You in My Fashion.

    There is an Ella in my listening room. (Please do not contact the police; I'll make do somehow.) Verve nailed their first release, and this cart does it all the justice it deserves. All the huskiness of her low range is present; I can her straining ever so slightly toward the end of 'Too Darn Hot;' and she stands out in front of the band without sounding like she's detached from them. The band itself sounds cohesive - the occasional kick or snare drum hit pops without affecting the sound of the winds or strings - and can be intimate enough to hear the treble on the bass strings at the end of lightly orchestrated 'I Get a Kick Out of You,' but opens up nicely on the shout chorus in 'Anything Goes.' This is exactly what I expect a mid-'50's disc to sound like at its best. 'Always True to You in My Fashion' (the last track) did get a bit more sibilant, but Ella's voice is also a bit brighter on that track overall, so (based on a pass with the VM540) I'd split that evenly between the record and the cart.

    Shearing On Stage!, Capitol T 1187 (1960 rainbow band repress), side 1: September in the Rain/On the Street Where You Live/Roses of Picardy/Little Niles/Caravan.

    Hello, vibraphone. This cart pulls enough of the metallic high pitched component of the sound of that instrument out to be noticeable, even over the cymbals on the kit. The high keyboard piano solo on 'On the Street Where You Live" has a good amount of bite as well, but none of this becomes shrill or unbalanced from the rest of the harmonic spectrum - it's all in balance, as I'm sure the engineers intended, and those two wind up a bit brighter than the cymbals over the side, as well as the percussion toys on 'Caravan.' The bass is full across the spectrum, and the kick comes through powerfully, without causing issues for the rest of the combo. I could stand a bit more of the guitar coming out during the full ensemble sections - it gets buried rather badly - but, again, I'd put this about 50/50 between the cart and the engineering. No issues as this reached the end of the side, and this did pull the band out from the middle of the applause on 'Caravan' fairly well.

    Lee Morgan, The Sidewinder, Blue Note BLP 4157 (1964 OP), side 1: The Sidewinder/Totem Pole.

    To borrow a phrase from J.P. Sousa: "Gentlemen, THAT is a ride cymbal." I get all the flavor of the tip of the stick hitting the moving cymbal without a hissy mess. I get spit on the horns. I get the guys vocalizing and talking behind the ensemble during the take on the title track. I can pick out both Lee and Joe Henderson (the tenor saxophonist) during the unison lines on the outro without having to strain. As 'Totem Pole' proceeded, I did start to get a bit of noise, mostly on the horns, and I have assign that to the cart rather than anything else after comparing on the microline.

    Overall, for this set, this cart is a valuable addition to the toolkit. No issues with surface noise appeared, and the only objection I had was a bit of audible IGD on the Morgan (the hottest side of the three). The high end roll off mentioned in the previous section was hardly noticeable, and may have helped to tame some of what could become obnoxious after a while. This cart seems to suit this type of material quite well.
     
    Ingenieur and Clayton93 like this.
  8. Angry_Panda

    Angry_Panda Pipe as shown, slippers not pictured Thread Starter

    Part III – whatever the kids are listening to these days*.

    *provided 'these days' means about 1967, give or take a year.

    The Beach Boys, Pet Sounds, Capitol T 2458 (1966 US OP), side 1: Wouldn't It Be Nice/You Still Believe in Me/That's Not Me/Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder)/I'm Waiting for the Day/Let's Go Away for a While/Sloop John B.

    This sounds better to my ears on this cart than on the VM540. Not because the detail is greater, but because the vocals sound like they're in the same space as the backing tracks - the microline puts these in two different planes with the percussion toys in between, while the conical neatly smashes them into the same space. The low bass seems a bit woofy (or just plain huge, in some cases), which I'm blaming on Phil Spector out of principle, and the cart does nothing to tame this, but I'm guessing most of the original target audience didn't have much of that coming through their systems to start with. Sadly, this does swamp some of the detail in the mid-range at times ('Don't Talk' and 'Let's Go Away for a While' in particular). On the other hand, the bookends of this side both provide enough detail to pick out lines in both the vocals and instruments and follow them throughout the tracks fairly successfully. No IGD that I could hear as 'Sloop John B' wound up.

    The Beatles, Lady Madonna b/w The Inner Light, Capitol 2138 (1968 US 45 OP), side 1: Lady Madonna.

    HEY THAT'S LOUD. However, after turning down, and accepting that Mom must have played this a number of times on a player with a sewing needle in place of an actual stylus set to about a quarter ounce of VTF (good lord this thing is worn), most everything seems to be there. The sax solo in the second bridge is buried, but audible; everything else comes through fairly well, so the guitar and the saxes blend but can be differentiated (albeit with a bit of difficulty) on the out verse. No shortage of bass on this one either, though it doesn't swamp as badly as Pet Sounds - it's a much tighter sound. Comparing to my Stanton .4x.7 on this, I'm not really getting any definitive IGD, just wear. However, the wear does seem somewhat less pronounced on the conical - I'd hazard a guess this is getting just a bit lower in the groove, avoiding more of the groove damage.

    John Mayall with Eric Clapton, Blues Breakers, Sundazed LP 5371 (2018 reissue), side 2: Key to Love/Parchman Farm/Have You Heard/Ramblin' on My Mind/Steppin' Out/It Ain't Right.

    I threw this one in mostly to see how the compliance was on this cart, since it's my understanding this is a stereo groove with mono information. (Also, Eric.) I can happily report there do not seem to be any issues with this - the stylus sailed through the side quite happily, and nothing sounded wrong when I flipped this onto the other turntable and the stereo stylus afterwards. Given the manufacturer's claim of reasonably high compliance, this shouldn't be a surprise - if I left this on by accident and used it on a stereo disc, I don't see any reason to believe it would cause damage. This is probably the album with the least difference between this cart and the microline, as the surface noise on the period discs is absent here. Nothing's harsh or bloated or out of balance, though I do get a bit of what sounds like flanging on the cymbals on the last track (a compression artifact, maybe?) that is more pronounced on this cart than on the VM540. No issues with the end of the side that I could hear in John's harmonica.

    Overall, this is the broad genre that seemed to show the most varied benefit from this cart. I'm fine with that, as I have very few rock/electrified blues discs in mono. If I had a broader selection to pull from - monos of Disraeli Gears or Are You Experienced, Sgt. Pepper, and something from the late '50's or early '60's - I would have thrown those in to get a somewhat more representative sampling of the rock era, but with what I've used here (which is literally as broad as I could get with mono off my shelf), the only real benefits (beyond the noise floor reduction on the older discs) were the unification of the soundstage on Pet Sounds and the smaller tip getting below damage on the 45. If rock or pop from the late '50's and '60's was the major focus of my collection, I'd be a bit disappointed with the benefits from this cart - it would get some use, but it wouldn't see as much play as I would have initially expected.
     
    JackG likes this.
  9. Angry_Panda

    Angry_Panda Pipe as shown, slippers not pictured Thread Starter

    Conclusions.

    On the upside, the suppression of surface noise is the most obvious benefit - having something to knock down that background in a way the mono switch on the amp can't is hugely beneficial. The other thing this cart gets me is a way to get under much of the damage done to older used discs (presumably by worn 1 mil heavy VTF players) with its .6 mil tip. As most of my monos are less than near mint, this has already demonstrated itself as a good tool to have available. The higher compliance also makes it somewhat idiot-proof, which is a good thing in my case - I'm sure that at some point I'll inadvertently put a stereo disc on with this cart, and it's nice to know this isn't going to destroy it when that happens.

    I had no issues with tracking, and minimal problems with IGD - not enough to cause me much concern, and not really a surprise given this is a conical stylus. I'm sure many folks here have systems which would make the IGD more pronounced, but I'm also pretty sure that most of those folks would be looking at a price range for a dedicated mono cart rather above this one. The slight high treble roll off is okay with me, and in some cases actually seemed to be a bit of a benefit. However, if you're sensitive to either of those things, this may not be the cart for you. Also, 1.2 mV isn't exactly high output when considering the whole spectrum of carts in this price range, so depending on the input sensitivity it's being fed to, either a step-up transformer or a preamp may be needed. I get the impression I'm at as low an input level as I'd want to be on my amp.

    The biggest downside of this cart is its losing some clarity in loudly cut, busy passages, particularly ones with lots of bass. As a bonded conical on an aluminum cantilever, this isn't really shocking, but it may render it a poor choice for some material.

    Installation was fairly straightforward, though if you're relying on the included hardware, you may want to have a few extra pairs of screws around in case the supplied ones don't suit you length-wise, and some extra patience in dealing with the circular nuts was a benefit. I would plan on a break-in period of perhaps four or five hours before this 'opens up' and starts to give good high frequency response. I do have a bit of concern about the recommended 500 hour life on this (curious if that's just AT being conservative, or if this will actually be wearing out at that point), coupled with the apparent lack of US support for exchange; I suppose once this reaches the end of its usable life, I'll take my chances and see what AT is willing to do (and report back).

    Given that I do have some mono material, but that it isn't the focus of my collection (perhaps 15% out of not quite 600 releases), and that most of that is classical with some jazz and only a few rock albums, this seems like a worthwhile purchase. If I had a great deal of mono rock from the early to mid '60's, I would probably be less pleased, though I could still see a place for this in the cartridge lineup if I happened across one (just back a bit further). For the price I paid at LP Gear ($189 w/ free shipping), I believe that I will get my money's worth out of this cart, and probably then some. Currently, these are going for about $120 with shipping from the Japanese sellers on e-Bay, which seems like a bargain.

    To summarize, if you're looking for a entry level but fairly well performing cart to use as a mono alternative for classical or jazz on your system, this should be on your short list.
     
    Ingenieur, efhjr and JackG like this.
  10. Dominator

    Dominator Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Excellent review. I think that at the price and with just the primary benefit of reduced noise, it is a at a good price to performance ratio for someone with a small percentage of mono records . I have 50 Or 60 mono records and I only play them about 10% of the time . So even with only a 500 Hour life it would be 5000 hours of total playing time before I need to replace the cartridge.

    I have picked up a couple well loved mono records in poor condition that I would never dream of playing with my stereo cartridge and they play at a VG level with the mono cart.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
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