AT VM540ML Unusable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Rattlin' Bones, Sep 6, 2021.

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  1. Rattlin' Bones

    Rattlin' Bones Grumpy Old Deaf Drummer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Good gosh where would an LP pick up pebbles in grooves? You'd have to expose it to sand, and if that happened I suspect the vinyl would be ruined. I'm just talking about ordinary dust sorta stuff. No sand, pebbles, or boulders lol.

     
    csgreene likes this.
  2. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I come across a single embedded tiny pebble stuck in the groove about once every 25-30 LPs or so. I never said it was "pebbles," I said a pebble. That means just one hard tiny spect that one can feel. And I can't speculate where it came from. I could guess it is sometimes a particle of a potato chip someone coughed up and on the LP?

    I don't know what records you are talking about, but I'm talking about used records found in all areas and all circumstances. And I have mastered the hand cleaning technique.
     
  3. Rattlin' Bones

    Rattlin' Bones Grumpy Old Deaf Drummer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    LOL never heard of a potato chip particle referred to as a pebble lol.

     
  4. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    A "petrified" potato chip particle becomes a pebble after a couple of decades (or less) I guess.
     
  5. Mario Umpiérrez

    Mario Umpiérrez Forum Resident

    I use a cavitation setup from CleanerVinyl and the results are excellent. I’ve seen all kinds of videos of countless methods each promoted as the best. Cavitation is IMHO the only thing hat cleans your vinyl without the type of contact that can damage the records or leave residue. My setup includes a filter that runs constantly as your clean your records so the tank remains clean and you’re not cross-contaminating records. The caveat is that you need a surfactant so the micro bubbles get inside the grooves otherwise the surface tension of the mix of distilled water and alcohol will not allow for it. Vacuum cleaners are popular but I haven’t use them as I don’t like anything making contact with my records other than the stylus. I have never cleaned records with tap water by hand and I don’t think I’ll ever do it, let alone use glue or anything like that. This whole subject is hugely debatable. So find whatever works for you in terms of both money and time, and clean your records as reasonably well as you think it’s needed. Most chances are you will not regret it.
     
  6. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It's those god damn micro-pebbles I'm glad I can get rid of. What a shock to the stylus those are!
     
  7. Licorice pizza

    Licorice pizza Livin’ On The Fault Line

    :laughup::agree:
     
  8. Licorice pizza

    Licorice pizza Livin’ On The Fault Line

    All my records get cleaned before I play them with my VM540ml. I actually love the fact that it getting all the gunk outta the grooves.
     
    Ingenieur likes this.
  9. Unchanging Window

    Unchanging Window It's the music!

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    So did you end up sticking with matching your AS with your VTF? I've been obsessing over this with my 1200s (MK5 and GR) which each have Audio Technica ML styli (not helped by the fact that my right ear doesn't pick up all the frequencies that my left does, making "doing it by ear" almost impossible). Trying the Peter L method, AS goes higher than VTF (somewhere between 2.4-3.0, depending on the record). I've also tried setting it to Technics' spec, matching VTF and AS. When I compare the sound to a known digital recording, AS matching the VTF sounds somewhat more accurate, but I've never liked how the stylus will skid into the lead-in grooves at that setting. That said, I've also read that the blank record tests (and I assume that Peter L's method sort of falls into this bucket) don't produce reliable values for ML styli because the tips are so sharp and basically cut into the plastic. Anyway, would be curious to know where you ended up because I have the same cart.
     
  10. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    I have my ML at 3 AS (Max) with my 1210GR.
    Its not the strongest AS mechanism out there.
     
  11. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    On the 1200 the antiskate is set about two clicks above 2 for the 740ml, with vtf set at something like 2.08.
     
    Unchanging Window likes this.
  12. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Isn't it true that the heavier the cartridge and corresponding VTF, the more AS is required( or doesn't even apply)? A heavy Denon DL-103, with it's low compliance and 2.5 g vtf isn't going to react much to a typical AS dial...?
     
  13. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    IDK.
    I have read that and other theories/recommendations with regards to AS, I think one that I recall is that a ml tip probably needs more AS.
     
    Unchanging Window likes this.
  14. Davey

    Davey NP: CLARAGUILAR ~ Figura (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    It's just the VTF, compliance and cartridge weight aren't factors. The friction force that causes skating is directly proportional to the tracking force and is a result of the overhang used on most pivoted tonearms. It is somewhat dependent on the shape of the stylus too, and the resulting contact area with the vinyl surface, or whatever factors affect the friction.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
  15. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    I use a VM540ML and have no dirt issues. I have not needed to even clean the stylus in a year. The micro-line stylus is reported to play deeper than other needles in the groove. Is it possible your groves on records dirty below where your previous cartridge played? As for static electricity issues is your tonearm made of non-metal or ungrounded?
     
    Unchanging Window likes this.
  16. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Wouldn't compliance matter though. The stiff suspension requires more "push" against the tonearm to track properly. Thus the benefit of a heavier tonearm with a DL-103. And an AS spring or mechanism is a constant. If it becomes a heavy cartridge/tonearm suddenly, the stiffer cantilever won't react as much to the same spring/AS force??
     
  17. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    The 540ml works like a dream on my 1200 Mk7L. No gunk build up at all.
     
  18. Davey

    Davey NP: CLARAGUILAR ~ Figura (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Anti-skate is only there to compensate for the inward force on the tonearm that arises due to friction between the stylus and the vinyl, and the overhang used on pivoted tonearms. This geometry results in a friction force component that rotates the tonearm inward toward the spindle. Anti-skate just attempts to balance that force, on average, across the record surface.

    I don't quite follow the reasoning in your compliance question, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no :)
     
  19. Unchanging Window

    Unchanging Window It's the music!

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Yeah, it feels like I've read a number of contradictory recommendations on here for the same setup (GR with a AT-VM540ML/740ML and a VTF of 2 grams): some people suggesting really low values (.5); others recommending significantly higher values (3 and up). I recall the same analysis about ML styli requiring about 1.5x the VTF in AS, which I'm second guessing. I suppose I should just do the Peter L method and call it a day (which put me at about 2.4-2.5 AS on GR when I tried it yesterday).
     
  20. Unchanging Window

    Unchanging Window It's the music!

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Sorry to belabor this, but how did you arrive at both values? I've been setting my AT-VM540ML and AT-VM740ML at 2 grams VTF, so I'm curious about why you chose both settings.
     
  21. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    It sounds like this works out.
    I basically just set vtf then match the As to that, if it's a ML that supposedly needs a bit more then I bump it up.
    Then I just observe how it all acts and adjust accordingly, mainly I watch to see how slow or fast it dives into the deadwax, sometimes I will lift it to see how much it drifts back.
    Nothing actually scientific.
     
    Unchanging Window likes this.
  22. Unchanging Window

    Unchanging Window It's the music!

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    What made you decide to max out the AS setting for the ML/GR combo? Was it the Soundsmith method, a test record or something else?

    I was playing around with different AS settings today on my 1200s using one of the more hotly cut records I own (and using a knob on my receiver to swap the left and right channels, as the hearing my right ear isn't as deep as the left). It seemed like the two channels became more uniform decibel wise as I lowered the anti skate to 0.5, which surprised me, as the right channel appeared to get noticeably louder compared to the left when I dialed the AS above 0.5. But when I listened to records that weren't as sonically extreme, the audio seemed to get more detailed when I set AS somewhere around 2 to match the VTF. And this all led me to believe that someone as OCD as me should just give up and settle on the Technics recommendation of equal values for AS/VTF. But again, it does irk/concern me that the stylus has a tendency to smash into the lead-in groove if I don't set AS at 2.5 and above.
     
  23. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    That’s what Roy Gandy says too lol
     
  24. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Soundsmith method and some challenging records I tested with. Also the stylus shouldnt skip lead in grooves which it does at lower settings.

    Channel balance is barely at all affected by AS, all it should do is reduce tracking distortion.

    There is no perfect setting, its a moving target, so I aim to reduce distortion on challenging passages.
     
    Unchanging Window likes this.
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