I can guarantee that CT indeed signifies Terre Haute, given how CP is reference to Pitman. For a time in late 1966/early '67, they had another deadwax code: CL - evidently standing for Columbia. I saw an early '60's Bridgeport-pressed United Artists LP where written within the deadwax in the lacquer number was CLB ( = Columbia, Bridgeport). Apparently, this is a case where 45-Sleeves doesn't know what they're talking about. But then, they also misidentified CP as code for Terre Haute, so there you go . . . However, I just E-mailed the webmaster to set all this straight.
My contribution regarding the "UNKNOWN DEADWAX CODES" ...taken from another thread: The initials "RG" mean Rob Grennell. He did a lot of work for Atlantic during the end of sixties..
UPDATED CORRECTIONS LABELS Record company codes (the letters after "ST") A = Atlantic Records C = Atco CAP = Capricorn CTN = Cotillion Records LPs CO = Cotillion Records 45s FC = Famous Charisma SS = Swan Song AS = Asylum MC = Manticore RS = Rolling Stones Records VR = Virgin records early 1970s (Mike Oldfield) Virgin later switched from Atlantic to CBS and then back to Atlantic. VA = Virgin late 70 (XTC, The Motors, The Flying Lizards etc.) Not sure why they switched to VA, maybe it meant Virgin-Atlantic or Virgin-America VR = Virgin mid 80s (Steve Winwood, Paula Abdul) BT = Big Tree records Doug Morris' (current head of Sony Music) label which he followed to Atlantic from Ampex and Bell. Pressing plant codes for LPs: PR = Presswell Records Mfg. Co., Ancora, NJ (they handled most of Atlantic's LP's during much of this period) LY = Shelley Products, Huntington Station, NY SP = Specialty Records Corp., Olyphant, PA MO = Monarch Record Mfg. Co., Los Angeles, CA PL = Plastic Products, Inc., Memphis, TN RI = Philips Recording Co., Richmond, IN AR = Allied Record Co., Inc., Los Angeles, CA CT or CTH = Columbia, Terra Haute, IN CP = Columbia (Pitman, NJ) CS or CSM = Columbia (Santa Maria, CA; very infrequently) BW = Bestway Plastics, Mountainside NJ SO = Sonic Recording Products, Holbrook, N MG = MGM Record Mfg. Division, Bloomfield, NJ (a brief period in late 1968) ME = ? FT= ? LP label example (Led Zeppelin I) ST-A-681461-MO ST = stereo A = Atlantic Records label 68 = last two digits of the year Atlantic first received source (tape) and started working on mastering 1461 = tape master number (for side one in this example) MO = Monarch Records pressing plant DEADWAX CUTTING LETTERS (following the tape master number in the deadwax): These letters indicate the lacquer cutting for that particular pressing, with A being the first, and B the second, and so on. An additional letter, always the same letter as the first cutting letter (but usually fainter) sometimes appears on Monarch pressings. Two additional letters, always the same letters as the first (usually fainter) may appear on RI pressings. These extra letters indicate an additional metal part made from the lacquer. Also, on "AR" pressings, the cutting letter is replaced with a handwritten delta symbol. For some promotional cuts with different banding and mastering, the cutting letter is replaced by "DJ" OTHER SCRIBINGS IN THE DEADWAX AT = Mastered by/for Atlantic AT/GP (handwritten) = mastered by George Piros at Atlantic AT/DK (handwritten) = mastered by Dennis King at Atlantic ATLANTIC STUDIOS DK (stamped) = mastered by Dennis King at Atlantic RG = Rob Grennell, mastering engineer for Atlantic in the late 60s ab = Abbey Record Mfg. Co. (? we still don't know the exact meaning) PR or PRC or (PR) = Philips Recording Co. (maker of metal parts from lacquers) LW or LWP = LongWear Plating (maker of metal parts from lacquers) MG = MGM Record Mfg. Division in Bloomfield, NJ AMP = ABC-Paramount M = Mercury RCA = RCA Victor (on some contract pressings of Elvis' 1956 smash hits) Records pressed by Specialty Records Corp. will have a stamped logo in the deadwax, consisting of a 'R' and 'C' intertwined in a larger letter 'S'. Also, records pressed at Specialty may contain a hand etched date in the deadwax. The date represents when the record was either plated at Specialty, or the date they received the lacquer from the mastering studio (there was a time in the 1971-72 period when that plant wrote dates on the deadwax of many a lacquer, both on LP's and 45's; this practice apparently didn't last all that long). Lastly, records made by Monarch will have a stamped circle with "MR" in it, and numbers preceded by a delta sign. As for numbers with the delta symbol on the deadwax - this apparently originated with the company that did plating on the West Coast (Alco Research & Engineering in Los Angeles), and their system was used by a host of L.A.-area plants including their own, plus Monarch and another plant called AFM Engineering. UNKNOWN DEADWAX CODES: F.T. REPL W sometimes with dots near it. Everyone please feel free to make corrections and add information.
In your explanation here above you say:" ST-A-681461 ...68 = ...the year Atlantic first received source (tape) and started working on mastering". How about the WLP? For example the LZ Houses Of The Holy WLP MONO has these two digits that are 14. I taken this info here: http://www.popsike.com/Led-Zeppelin-DJ-WLP-MONO-Houses-Of-The-Holy-Monaural-LP/330391969989.html What does it means in this case thenumber "14"? Moreover: is it possible to have a different code-number between label and dead wax? I mean, look at the label here below, at the bottom in brackets there is "A-14250 PR" on both Side, while on dead wax there should be "A-14259-A STERLING RL" on Side One and "A-14260-A STERLING RL" on Side Two. With this my second question, I am speaking about a vinyl (this one below) that I'm trying to figure out if it is an original US WLP MONO, or a fake/bootleg. I have to specify that at this moment I can not look at the details of the dead wax because I'm not in town ... I just got this vinyl (no cover) which is now at home. I can only image that the dwead wax is the same as the above example from popsike.... What is your opinion?
That is a curious looking label. I've never seen one with that font size and style. Also, the bottom of the label on side two looks like it is peeling up. I would have questions regarding the authenticity of it. I found this image online that I feel is genuine, for comparison.
Giorgio, That is a very interesting record. It does not seem to follow the typical Atlantic label patterns. At this point I cannot form an opinion about it yet. Maybe someone else here can help figure it out. I've never seen a mono Houses of the Holy in person. My understanding is that they were made from a fold-down of the stereo master tape, and probably don't sound very good. It's more a record for collectors seeking rare and unusual items.
Definitely a counterfeit - the presence of ITC Franklin Gothic weights are a clue, as is the "7255" which looks like one of the typewriter font simulations. And especially based on . . . . . . which was a genuine Presswell pressing.
I haven't yet the possibility to check the dead wax for provide you the inscription of my copy... Nevertheless, the example from popsike and also the one posted by Axis, says that the code (14....) for this record doesn't follow the logic "per year" for Atlantic label patterns: it had to be 73. Maybe there was another "rule" for WLP mono... While for WLP stereo this logic is confirmed: my Led Zep IV WLP stereo has both codes, on label and dead wax, that start with 71.
About this point what I know is: the scratches and marks along the edges of the label, and particularly unglued little spots, and wrinkles on the label are a very common problem (Atlantic was notorious for this) because this was not a production of "Swiss watches". The labor involved in production of these pieces was poorly paid and treated miserably and had very little motivation to glue them methodically and patiently. You will very often find labels with air bubbles and wrinkles on them. You know why? Because the pressing machine imprinted TWO labels on top of each other. I wonder if this information, provided me by a friend/collector from NY, is correct...
Thanks for your feedback. In confidence, looking both examples I can't understand very well the differences, expecially for the two numbers 7255 that to my eyes are identical.... Could you please be so kind to "try" to explain again at an inexperienced guy like me your conclusion? Again, thaks a lot for your help and effort!
W.B. is referring to the style of font used. The letters and numbers have slightly different shapes. Look at the 5's in 7255. The bottom half of this number is different. The example you provided does not continue upwards on the tail of the 5, as the other example does. Also look at the text "sample copy not for sale". On your image it is aligned further left than the other image, where the last character is aligned with the track numbers.
Finally I have the full text etched in the dead wax regarding this "strange" copy of LZ Houses Of The Holy WLP MONO: 001-A (side 1) 001-B (side 2) ...nothing else! Nothing to do with the original one's from Atlantic reported here: http://www.popsike.com/Led-Zeppelin-DJ-WLP-MONO-Houses-Of-The-Holy-Monaural-LP/330391969989.html Now I think I can say that it is definitely a counterfeit (already stated by W.B. whitout know this dead wax!) Do you agree with me?
For the unknown codes, doesn't REPL just mean the same thing as an RE would? A replacement cut for a remix, or a damaged/defective plates?
Hi Tom, Always with ref at the statement here above:" ST-A-681461 ...68 = ...the year Atlantic first received source (tape) and started working on mastering", please have a look at this other example regarding Atlantic WLP MONO, by the Led Zep II: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251237381365?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Dead wax info: side 1: A-13135-A LW W AT side 2: A-13136-A LW W AT Also in this case (as for HOTH) this has the number that doesn' match with the year: 13135 while the year is '69. Just to remind, dead wax of HOTH WLP MONO is: side 1: A-14259-A STERLING RL side 2: A-14260-A STERLING RL The number is 14260 while the year is '73. So we have evidence for LZ II (1969) and LZ HOTH (1973). Would be nice to have more example for Atlantic/ATCO WLPMONO. IMO you should add a "special section" in your very nice summary, for the Atlantic WLP MONO. Then, maybe someone will explain us the meaning... Kind regards, Giorgio
I will need to puzzle with this a bit. I will guess that when the fold down to mono was created, a new "master tape" was made. The new fold down "master tape" needed a new and unique catalog number to keep it separate from the stereo. As to why the matrix begins with "1" and not the date the master was submitted to Atlantic, I don't know.
Your logic works to me. I hope we will receive an help for this issue from some expert here in this lovely forum...I hope.
The practice of having the year as the first two digits of the matrix numbers was only done on the stereo albums. The mono records simply continued on in their earlier numerical series.
Need help..I have Exile On Main Street. What I believe is the first pressing. It has Unipak design copy with the perforated postcards. The Matrix numbers seem to be accurate based on my searches. Matrix / Runout (Side A Label): ST-RS-722507-G Matrix / Runout (Side B Label): ST-RS-722508-G Matrix / Runout (Side C Label): ST-RS-722509-B Matrix / Runout (Side D Label): ST-RS-722510- A Runoff also has the PR for Presswell NJ which is followed by several others numbers/letters I'm unsure of. Side A & B after the G is AC in a circle followed by but not connected is ex followed by the Delta symbol for change then I think the lacquer number ? which is 16944 on Side A & B and 16945 on Side C & D........also curious is at this point but only on Side D after 16945 is the letter x followed by the number 3 in parentheses. and lastly, I have a friend with the same record and almost entirely the same as above info (no AC or ex in runoff) but our labels are slightly different. The yellow RS Records label is the same but at the bottom his has printed Side One/Two "DIST. BY ATCO. DIV. OF ATLANTIC RECORDING CORP. 1841 B'WAY, N.Y., N.Y." at the bottom in large font. Sides Three/Four "ROLLING STONES RECORDS, TM MUSIDOR N.V. DIST. BY ATLANTIC RECORDING CORP. 1841 BWAY., N.Y., N.Y." at the bottom of the label in small font. My copy on all sides reads "ROLLING STONES RECORDS, TM MUSIDOR N.V. DIST. BY ATLANTIC RECORDING CORP. 75 Rockefeller Plaza N.Y., N.Y." at the bottom of the label in small font. Any significance to the difference in address ? ? Any help is appreciated.
Could the "AC" in a circle actually be a stamped "MR" in a circle? Sounds like you have a pressing made at the Monarch plant. Look on the labels, the bottom row of print should read "SR-RS-722508MO" if it's a Monarch. If the last two letters are PR, then it would be a Preswell, or RI would be Philips, Richmond Indiana (like my personal copy).
Also, your friend's copy with the 1841 Broadway address on the labels was made earlier than your copy, circa 1972-73. The switch to the 75 Rockefeller Plaza address appears to have occurred sometime in 1973, but I don't know the specific month.
Thank you! This is very important information, and it needs to be added to the overall summary. Without doing a deep analysis, the mono master numbers appear to me to be simply chronological. Are there any indications otherwise?
