Audio Note Dac Comparison

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Designsfx, Nov 28, 2022.

  1. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I haven’t had a chance to contact Audio Fed as of yet- I’ll make a note to reach out to them. Per your earlier comments (Richard) I’m not using a streaming device as my main source of playback- only stream to audition new music to buy. My music collection is all Redbook format ripped via a Naim Uniti Core- stored on SS drives.
    I’m diligently trying to determine if an AN Dac will be the right pick for my listening tastes so I can move past the chase for what I would consider to be the best Dac for my system. I’ve had many discussions and have read many articles & reviews and I find the approach and concepts behind the design fascinating. I know that AN products are primarily driven by their place within an AN system but I’m trying to determine how good of a fit it would be for me as I own other manufacturers equipment.
    BTW- your ID says you’re from Hong Kong. It’s a beautiful place! I bet much has changed since I lived there (almost 20 yrs ago).
     
  2. Tourswede

    Tourswede Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin
    And this is partly why I’m still pondering my next move up for the streaming part at home. I’m using Node 2i + AN dac 0.1x for a while now and it’s very enjoyable (and user friendly) for the money. It makes it easy for family and friends visiting to play their music without complicating anything.

    I’ve been looking to upgrade everything but it seems it’s quite a big step and expense to get a better AN DAC and then an appropriate WiFi streamer to do that justice.

    I’m toying with the idea of getting a good streamer with built in dac to go straight to the AN Oto. I was close to ordering the dac 1.1 signature but without also upgrading the Node it might not make much sense.
     
    Richard Austen likes this.
  3. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Would you consider streaming to be your largest point of use when listening to your system? Personally I don’t think one or the other is wrong or right but rather what provides you with the most overall enjoyment.
    I have no direct experience as of yet with AN DAC’s or the Node 2i but the approach that @Lowrider75 has taken with the Mutec 3+ seems to have provided a boost in his system.
     
    Lowrider75 likes this.
  4. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    My main listening tends to be from LP but I run music from my PC directly to the USB of my AN 0.1x DAC using Foobar2000 (mainly because it's easy to use and never has any glitches or noises etc). Is it the best? No, but then it's better than what I have heard from computer audio and streaming at audio shows! Maybe I am a Luddite but I need to be convinced something sounds good before I spend the money to buy it - I won't buy the "promise" that spending $10k on a Bricasti Streamer will be good when it's never good at dealers or shows.

    I was considering upgrading the 0.1x but part of me thinks that I should just use this DAC for computer playback since I can listen to music all day from it and then just buy AN one-box CD player for umm CDs. The thing is - the one box CD player does have some advantages and my dealer in HK feels like the one-box sounds better in the sense that the sound is more complete or whole - Transports and wires and Dacs and extra power cords etc - it has some advantages of sorts but I don't know. Shorter signal paths in a one-box solution have advantages.
     
  5. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Yes I have music stored to 2.5' external drives into a PC fed to AN DAC 0.1x (USB) - although I should use a USB/SPDIF converter - I currently use that input for the transport.

    The sound is quite fine - no noise no hums and it sounds fine - I mean my expectations aren't exactly that high for computer audio because I have never heard computer audio sound all that great. At least with the DAC 0.1x I can listen all day without fatigue - that's sort of a great minimum bar to achieve. I can even listen to Youtube videos for hours and it's quite respectable. I kind of don't want to mess with what is working. I go to audio stores listen to expensive dCS or Bricasti and after 5 songs I am wincing. How can you screw up Eva Cassidy? A singer and a guitar! Eeesh.

    I have a lot more music my hard drives than I realized - so I suppose I should work harder to get more out of it but I keep going back to the if it ain't broke don't fix it.
     
  6. Tourswede

    Tourswede Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin
    And like you.. I'm also hesitant to make any jumps atm. The Node + 0.1x work great. We are a 80% vinyl household anyways. And whenever I want to stream it sounds really fine. Like you said.. no fatigue! A high bar to meet. Which is possible... but I don't have those funds available atm. Maybe next year. :)
     
  7. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Where in your system do you use your Mutec clock?
     
  8. Lowrider75

    Lowrider75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I'm using the reclocker function of the MC-3+ with two sources. My PS Audio transport outputs AES/EBU into the clock, a Node2i feeds S/PDIF via RCA coax. The MC3+ uses a high quality digital coax into the DAC. I can switch between sources on the front panel.

    CDs already sounded great into my dac, now with the clock they sound even better. It could be due to the reclocked signal or possibly using AES instead of SPDIF coax, don't know for sure.
     
  9. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Interesting. Thanks.
     
  10. Lowrider75

    Lowrider75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Full disclosure; I'm starting to sour on the use of the Mutec MC-3+ in conjunction with my AN DAC. With a M3 Phono I found a synergy between the two AN components. Now, I'm finding the aggressive reclocking is taking away the organic sonics that Audio Note provides. It's true that an AN DAC relies on a stable stream from its source, I've decided my Node2i is a weak link and that's where I will make my upgrade. My well-clocked transport makes beautiful music with my DAC2.1x Sig.
    I think I'm hooked on the sonic signature Peter and company have produced and I'd like to explore it further. There's a dealer only an hour away.
     
    Encore, Designsfx and jonwoody like this.
  11. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Regarding streaming to AN DACs, I'm using an Allo DigiOne Signature with an Ultracap LPS1.2 powering the clean side. It's brilliant if you ask me. Going to an ANK DAC, which are similar designs and also don't make any corrections. It's buttery smooth. DigiOne Signature Player SPDIF Out

    I do not own any other AN or AN inspired pieces. KEF speakers and Parasound amp. The DAC plays well with the other brands.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
    Lowrider75 likes this.
  12. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    @Lowrider75 -
    Haven’t heard from you in a while- This is news! Have you considered a replacement yet? Are you going to move into the new Direct Stream model or similar combo? I decided not to make a move on the Mutec- put the money into a new Lumin U2 Mini to give streaming a fair shake instead. Still love the CD’s as much as ever but I’m finding that auditioning music through the Lumin is a nice way to try before you buy! Let me know what you decide on.
     
    Encore likes this.
  13. Lowrider75

    Lowrider75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I really enjoy streaming Qobuz but the Bluesound Node2i will never equal the SQ of my CD playback. So, like you, I'll address the streamer. My AN DAC has been fully upgraded so I'll be looking for a dedicated streamer.

    I do want to point out that the Mutec MC-3+ is a terrific device at its price point. I experienced deep detailed bass and spacious soundstaging with air. My favourite feature was a front panel switch to change sources, in my case, a streamer and transport.
    But ultimately, I've been loving how musical my dac is when it's left to it's own design without any processing.
    A DAC3.1x Sig would've been my next upgrade, but at present
    AN is not manufacturing this model.
     
    Designsfx likes this.
  14. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    @Lowrider75
    I’m not sure if you’ve given any consideration to Lumin products for streaming but so far I’ve found the U2 Mini to be pretty good. What I appreciate the most about it is that there is NO DAC! I’m running mine via AES out to my Aqua La Scala. It is a little brighter sounding than my Naim but not harsh. Still not as resolving as the Naim overall but does well with Qobuz. When I A/B a digital file from the Uniti Core’s drive you can definitely hear the difference in sound quality. It does have me interested in their new U1-X offering. Still avoids an integrated DAC but has their newest processor and their external power supply.
     
  15. Lowrider75

    Lowrider75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Hi Todd, I just started gathering info on streamers. The use of the Mutec to reclock the Node2i was an eye opener. It showed what this streamer was lacking. I only decided this week to put the money into a streamer upgrade and sell the master clock.
    Part of my research will include what streamers play well with AN DACs. Will take my time since I just got hit with an increased property tax bill. Message me anytime.
     
  16. CKDC

    CKDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC

    I am interested in what you try and what you end up buying.

    I am thinking of upgrading my streamer this year.

    Right now Lumin and Innuos are my short list. (I like the idea of using the Lumin remote. I just wish it had similar functions to what I do with a remote and the Bluesound Node.)
     
    Lowrider75 likes this.
  17. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    @CKDC
    Are you using an Audio Note dac?
     
  18. CKDC

    CKDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Nope.
    I am using an ANK 4.1 Professional.

    (I feel like an upgraded streamer should be my next improvement.)
     
    jonwoody, Lowrider75 and Designsfx like this.
  19. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    @CKDC
    I’m interested in hearing about your dac. What were you using prior to that and what led you to choose the 4.1? Did you build it yourself or purchase it assembled? Had you tried or owned an Audio Note model previously and have you been able to compare yours to an original? Any modifications?
     
  20. CKDC

    CKDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC

    My Audio Note Kits 4.1x Professional was built by ANK. I use it as was delivered. I have not changed the tubes from what came with it.

    https://ankaudiokits.com/product/dac4-1x-professional-edition/



    Prior to this, I have had several DACs, the most recent was an RME fs2.

    I have never had an Audio Note DAC.

    While looking at various dacs, I knew I wanted to try a dac with tubes, including in the power supply. (Last spring I bought an Audio Note Oto which totally changed my listening. I felt like the tubes made that big a difference.) I also wanted more than one input. I also did not want to spend more than $3k. Even that was really straining my budget. (I do try and maintain a self imposed limit to try to find true value in audio gear.) ANK had a sale last September that made the dac fit my price point.

    I feel like this dac works very well with my Audio Note Oto SE and Snell J speakers.

    I also feel like my Bluesound Node 2 is probably holding me back. Since the vast majority of my listening is through streamed music, I am looking at advancing to a higher level. (Hence my interest in what others are using to stream audio via similar equipment.)
     
    Lowrider75 likes this.
  21. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I'm not sure if you saw my post about the DigiOne Sig, but you should check it out. I realize the price might make it look like a toy, but I promise it is no slouch, especially with a good power supply. I don't know first hand, but willing to bet it would be a good upgrade over the Node. It seems like I hear people complain about the Node's digital output all the time. Nothin but praise for the DigiOne. It does one thing only, and it does it well. Just a thought before spending thousands.
     
    Encore likes this.
  22. CKDC

    CKDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC

    Yes, I did see your post. It did get me to rethinking that streamer.


    I use a Raspberry Pi in my “upstairs” system. I like it better for pure sound than the Node 2i in that setup. I use this with the internal dac of my Audia integrated. But that dac is just for usb. I do like having remote controls with my Bluesound streamers to do volume control, pause, play and pick streamed radio stations. My wife also really likes the use of a remote.

    So, ideally, my next streamer in my “downstairs” setup would feature a remote.
     
    DyersEve726 likes this.
  23. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Gotcha. Yeah, I'm not sure of any way to connect a physical remote. They do make infrared usb dongles that can be programmed for any remote, but I'm not sure how you would integrate it with the pi and digital out.
     
  24. CKDC

    CKDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC

    I did, in fact look into that.

    It is doable but beyond my skillset. (I was pleased with myself, and faced past computer issues, to assemble both a Raspberry pi streamer and a NUC for streaming Roon. This is after wrestling and spending a lot of time and effort to make Windows based computers work for me.)

    At this point, if I can get off the shelf equipment to me I am happy to pay a few bucks for that.

    Again, that for pointing out the Allo stuff. I think it would work well in many of our audio set ups.

    I would certainly encourage people to try it.

    Or, go for Bluesound. I think they do make gear that is more than adequate for most of us.

    Or, at least to create a starting point.
     
    dj_w and DyersEve726 like this.
  25. Lowrider75

    Lowrider75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I took a good look at the internal pics of your DAC. It's clearly beautiful craftmanship. With the premium parts it must sound wonderful. And it must pair well with your Oto SE. And your Snells.
    Ever have the desire to try using AN cables in your system?
     

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