I have been a fan of AT cartridges for years but am new to this forum. First .. thanks for all the great info as I am just about to pull the trigger on an ART9 - hoping its 0.5mv output will be compatible with my modified Dynaco PAS4 pre-amp. I have one question that I have not been able to get a really satisfactory or definitive answer: In looking at the Art9: "special line contact stylus) Also, the AT33sa which has a Shibata stylus (I have owned many of these from the AT120sa to the AT30 MC) So which is the better stylus shape? Mainly stereo playback - no mono. What are the advantages of wither against the other? Any input, thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
My understanding of stylus shape performance, in general is: Spherical < Conical < Eliptical < Shibata < Line Contact < MicroRidge < proprietary, very expensive designs (of which I can't name one, but they have to be out there). FWIW, I used up the stylus on my Art9 and loved every minute of doing it. To re-tip, I went from their Line Contact to a Namiki MicroRidge and honestly, I don't hear a TON of difference outside of just going from a worn to a new stylus. In short, the stylus on the Art9 should outperform the AT Shibata, all other things assumed equal. The Art9 is an absolute joy to listen to, for me, for what it's worth.
What cartridge are you using now? A typical MM cartridge would have 8-10x more output than than the ART9. Don't know what mods you've done, but the stock Dynaco is just 40dB gain on the phono. The line amp is pretty high gain so it may work OK if you have enough gain for your amp. You'd probably want to change the input resistance to something more in line with a typical LOMC cartridge load, or add some transformers on the phono inputs.
As is Amazon. I guess AT is making them more available in the US now. I see the prices have jumped, too. Glad I got mine earlier now.
One advantage of the line contact and shibata stylus shapes is the life of the stylus- the contact patch area in the grooves is larger. They typically last 2:1 vs an elliptical stylus and are good for thousands of hours. The ART9 seems to have an ideal shape IMHO because it extracts a great amount of detail yet is extremely clean sounding and while you need to align it properly, alignment is not as demanding as some other shapes- e.g. some shibatas I have owned- which do not sound very good if the alignment is slightly off. FYI people who have owned the AT33 SA have switched to the ART9 and found it a significant upgrade.
Yeah, this "cult" giant killing cartridge that was only available on LP Gear and "juki" on ebay has gone mainstream. The prices on ebay are through the roof. Unfortunately there isn't a cartridge south of $1800 that can touch it IMHO.
Still delighted with mine. That said a mate has had his Stanton 881 modded with ruby cantilever, micro scanner 2 tip and the stylus is fixed to the body for rigidity..... In some ways it's better than the ART9. The ART9 tracks better and has less IGD though
If I remember correctly, @vinyldoneright had an Art7 and found it to be bright. The Art9 isn't bright but it does have very good air and treble extension, but to me it's a very natural, non-fatiguing sound. To me, the choice would be between the OC9 and the Art9. The Art7, I don't think, competes with either. I know of one very respected and capable phono preamp outfit/manufacturer who uses the OC9 to voice all of his phono stages (Keith Herron). To me, that says a lot about how neutral and authentic these cartridges are.
I have OC9III on my arm currently, and before that was 33sa. They are close, with the 33 edging out the OC9 by a nose imo. I broke the 33sa, and that is what I'm planning on trading up for. ART7 has air coils and the others have something in there like iron or ??? that helps increase output to 0.4-0.5 mV. The Art 7 should have less moving mass than the others I'm speaking about. I've seen mixed responses on this, but not too many Art 7's in circulation I don't think.
To a certain extent, I think you have to be really careful when taking into consideration someone else's online opinion or evaluation of extremely low output cartridges like the ART 7, Denon DL S-1 and even more exotic stuff. Cartridges like the ART 7 with a .12 mV output require exceptionally good phono preamps that can not only handle a very low output like that but actually match up well (primarily in terms of gain, but also loading) and sound good with it, or alternatively be matched up with an appropriate SUT and another set of IC's. And the SUT that would work with the ART 7 would very likely not be a good match with the Denon for example because of their vastly different internal impedances. So it's not an easy job for most phono stages. I've thought about the ART 7, for example and have a pretty versatile stage but I think it is borderline at best with the ART 7. As such, even though I think the 7 may be a better cartridge technically I (personally) would probably opt for the 9 as I think it would be much less demanding of the phono stage and probably be easier to get good to great results with than the 7.
Agree with your thoughts blakep on these two carts. I do wonder what the Art 7 might bring to the table if optimized with stage though? I have an appropriate SUT and a not so easily adjustable phono stage, but it can be adapted if necessary with component changes. I would be on the edge for gain at the moment, but within the ballpark, and am guessing that if I had to make an adjustment that gain would be it. Haven't figured out yet which way to go: 1. Pretty easy, sounds great 2. More difficult or sensitive, but with possibly higher end point than number 1. But I appreciate the responses. Hope to get some hands on responses from those who have tried both or at least the 7. Tons of posts on the 9.
The only other cart I posses which is on the same level as my ART9 is my much older Phillips GP922 cart from the 80's . It's was manufactured and designed by Namiki and like the ART7 is an air core with an extremely low 0.12mv output. It's actually superior to the ART9 in terms of sound stage depth, with about the same width. It's a little smoother and transparent, less Hi-Fi sounding than the ART9 and matches up extremely well with a Hashimoto HM-3 or Fidelity Research FRT-4 and is okaish only with a Cinemag 1254. Phono stage choice is also critical in terms of sound signature with the best match being a Valab LCR-1 and second a highly modified Realistic 42-2101. It's really not just down the which components are a technical match though also which have a sound signature that work with the cart. Considering the age differences for me this is a good example of how good an air core can be so I've little doubt that the ART7 is probably superior to the ART9. Considering the price difference, right now if my ART9 were unable to be retipped once worn I'll opt for the ART7. The price is far better.
an ART 9 fan on the Audiogon thread got word from AT engneering that the ART 7 was targeted to classical music lovers vs the ART 9 for jazz and rock. If you have the phono preamp to support the lower gain and are a classical music buff the ART 7 is made for you.
I've read that as well but attribute it mainly to marketing BS, or what popped into the AT guy's head when he was responding to that question. Good cartridges should do any type of music equally well. That's what makes them good cartridges.
Yeah I saw that comment too. Didn't make much sense to me. Classical has largest dynamic window so to me if it's anything other than a BS comment it might be a compliment, which to me means rock and jazz would sound awesome on it as well. I listen to more jazz and rock than classical but I want them all to sound great.
https://methode-my.sharepoint.com/:...ZLvMayBt9p2PgBFT3ZrGAaUWPKCnGoPH8-VA?e=7VoiVJ Link to a simple worksheet for phonostage gain if anyone wants to use it. The Art7 is plugged into it with my current system fyi, but you can plug whatever you want in it to assist with calculating your gain. I made it after reading Avanti's thread on phono gain. dB converter in it as well.
Always so skeptical It is possible that the voicing etc. of a given cartridge can be optimized for certain music. The Asian market is saturated with classical music audiophiles that know their sound and their systems. AT knows what they are doing and I would not be surprised if that statement is true. I haven't heard the 7 but the ART 9 definitely seems to be voiced for rock and jazz- a little thicker on the bottom end, smooth midrange and clean extension at the top. Nice work!
It's my cynical nature after working in sales for 40 years and spending about the same amount of time in this hobby. Doesn't make sense to me. In reality, any cartridge is "voiced" but it's just too bizarre to suggest that it is "voiced" for a specific genre of music. If it's voiced for classical, for example, is it voiced to sound best on the full bodied analog Mercurys those Japanese audiophiles are spinning or the thinner DG digital stuff from the 80's? What happens if they have both? Maybe you just need multiple cartridges for different types of recordings; I can buy into that to a certain extent. There is some truth to this but you have to start having pretty deep pockets to accomplish it. I have a good friend with a system that is light years ahead of mine who is a bit of a vinyl fetishist (and also a dealer so he can cycle through tonearms/cartridges etc. without taking quite the hit that other mere mortals might) who runs 3 very good tables (think stuff like Kronos, modified Raven AC-3, Verdier, Brinkmann, etc.) each with 2 tonearms and cartridges. So six cartridges in total, most running between $4K & $15K retail, all on arms that are carefully matched and in the same league. So he has most of the ground covered, but more so with respect to the quality and type of recording as opposed to musical genre. I did find it interesting that an owner of the ART 7 at Audiogon also felt that the statement that the 7 was better with classical than rock and jazz was not particularly credible as he'd played lots of rock and jazz with it and felt it did very well. One of his other cartridges is a Zyx Universe, which by all accounts is a pretty good cartridge, so that is highly complimentary to the 7 on those genres which it supposedly not voiced for.
I had the ART-7 for a short while it was significantly brighter in my system than the ART-9 BUT..I was using telefunkens with the 7 and Amperex with the 9
Tele's are a good deal brighter than Amperex... I've always preferred the Amperex and RCA Black Plate tubes.... The RCA's do bass a bit better though Amperex have airier open ended highs. Both are warmish
Since I'm new to this forum and appreciate the replies so far, I thought I might give a little background on my experience... It all started when I was in 7th grade when I saved up my paper route (remember those?) money to buy a GE stereo with detachable speakers and a flip down stacking automatic turntable with a ceramic stylus (my poor albums). Next when in 8th grade I got my Pioneer SX 626 receiver, EV 14a speakers and a BSR510 table with a Shure M91ed cartridge - ahhhh... smooth as silk. Moving along though several upgrades over the years... I ended up in college with a Pioneer SA9100 / TX9100, Panasonic cassette, outboard TEAC Dolby encoder/decoder, EV16a speakers and a ARXA table with Stanton 500EEE cartridge (nirvana) Through several reel to reel additions and many tables - Lenco L50 (junk), Phillips GA212 (loved those green buttons), Shure V15 and finally a Pioneer PL71 with an Audio Technica SA20SS Out of college and I finally dumped all of my old Dynaco Tube preamp and 2 - ST-70's for some semi audiophile gear: Heavily modified Hafler DH101, 4-Hafler DH200's running 4 stacked Advent 5012's (one of the best tweeters I've ever heard0 and 2 DH500's running 2 custom built 15" JBL Subwoofers. Sometimes I still miss that little DH101 for its simplicity and ability to become invisible to the music. Time for the Pioneer PL71 to go... in comes a Kenwood KD500 with an Infinity Black Widow tone arm and Dynavector Ruby cartridge with Marcof PPA1 battery preamp - later upgraded to a PPA2. Other analog sources included Technics RSB-B100 3 motor 3 head cassette deck (still use it in like new pristine condition) and for the digital side ... a Technics SL-P999 Class AA CD player with 4 20 bit DACS (Upgraded DAC's to newer Burr Brown models and new Burr Brown Op-Amps). This is still like new and being used for CD's. Also swapped the Infinity Black Widow for a Mayware Formula 4 arm (simple and great sounding with the Dynavector). Along came a house, wife and kids and a lot of this had to go.... didn't know how much I missed it till I started it up again. Still have the CD Player but now running a heavily modified Dynaco PAS4 (very limited build - very nice preamp) a pair of Consonance Ella 50 watt per channel tube amps, 4 Kenwood LO-7M mono block amps. All have been re-capped and modded to my liking. Running 4 Paradigm Studio 40 Monitors (bi-amped) and 2 Paradigm 10" Monitor subs. I've always thought 10" subs were the most musical and when set up correctly, you never notice the subs until you turn them off. So present day... I sold the Kenwood 500 and now have a home built ClearAudio Emotion/Marantz TT15 Hybrid Turntable (picture attached). It is three plinths - each seperated 1/4" sorbothane pads. The platter is on the top plinth, the tonearm sits on a piller that is mounted to the middle plinth - completely isolating the platter and bearing from the arm. The motor is completely detached and the bottom plinth sits on a custom built isolation base that is the exact same outline as the plinths and 3 internal layers - 2 filled with fine white sand seperated by a 1/2" layer of silicone fluid. Pictured on the turn table is a brand new, never used Grace 747 arm. It is not yet mounted as I currently have it up for sale on a couple of boards. It is just sitting there for the purpose of taking a picture of it. I'm debating on keeping it or replacing it with a new ProJect EVO 12 CC carbon fiber arm. I also will have a very thin layer of sorbothane between the cartridge and head shell to further isolate any vibrations and to make it a bit easier to align the cartridge by simply tightening one side screw or the other. So here is where I am asking for advice..... ProJect arm or keep the Grace. Either should work well with the ART9 cartridge. I may keep the Marcoff pre-amp or if sell the Grace 747 - step up to something new. I would be interested in your recommendations for a good phono amp or transformer for the cartridge in the $400 - $500 range. The preamp phono section recommends 1mv input with the following specs: GAIN: 40 dB RIAA ACCURACY: +/- .5 dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz PHONO OVERLOAD: 500mV RMS @ 1kHz MAXIMUM OUTPUT CAPABILITY: 60V RMS @ 1kHz THD: 50V RMS @ 20kHz (for 1% THD) less than .025% @ 2V RMS Output INPUT IMPEDANCE: 47k shunted by 10pF That's all I got for now... comments and recommendations are definately welcome. Thanks in advance... and Enjoy the Music!
