Audio Technica ART9 MC Cartridge- The Real Deal?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. chris8519

    chris8519 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Was it VTA? I’ve never messed with mine wonder if I can get more out of it by tweaking VTA
     
  2. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    No I just think I got the stylus dead in the groove now. It wasn’t much but sometimes a tiny shift can make a difference I guess. I’m pretty happy it’s nailed on now…
     
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  3. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    As a reference I have found the ART9s to sound best at headshell true level VTA to .5mm tail up.
     
  4. Deadly_Icy_Calm

    Deadly_Icy_Calm Forum Resident

    Location:
    Burke, VA
    Just tried out the ART9 with the Marantz PM-KI Ruby onboard phono. Wow. What a great match! Detail, depth, width, and quiet. Afraid to re-connect the Chinook
     
  5. chris8519

    chris8519 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Hey everyone, I had quite a revelation after doing a vinyl rip using my current setup.

    back in 2010 I was running a AT ML440A and using the integrated phono preamp of an old Yamaha CR-420 (I think was the model).
    I made a vinyl rip of Arcade Fire Suburbs back then using my PC sound card at 24/96.


    This week I redid it with my new Focusrite 212. Same exact disc.

    expecting to hear much more detail and separation, I was surprised to find the old ML440A recording to be a bit brighter and thus “more detailed”. Only slight slight more separation with the ART9 XI. For some effects where there was a synth or chirping sound, the new cart placed it better and didn’t blur across the soundstage.

    otherwise I felt like the ART9 was veiled and considerably less treble.

    maybe easier on the ears for a full listening session… but is this the expected sound signature between the two carts? Bass was about the same.

    Running my preamp at 200 ohm after an A/B recorded test. I can’t remember if I used the KAB fluid dampening on the original rip; I did on this new one.
    Still… quite veiled. Or is it smooth and “correct”? And the 440 that was tipped up to give the illusion of detail?
     
  6. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I get a similar comparison with a OC9XSL compared to a VM 740ML.
    I haven't done the brass tacks comparison but the 540 MM really shines in the upper registers, the OC9 mostly just sounds right and especially so with acoustic music, but doesn't seem to have the upper detail retrieval of the 740.

    Edit to add: chances are it's the 440 that is tipped up.
     
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  7. chris8519

    chris8519 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Yep similar results for us. I now mainly listen to jazz so the ART9XI is a fit, but I’m pretty baffled at the price difference and overall “quality” of my rig back then, and was able to get basically the same quality rip as what I have today. In someways the cheaper rig was more detailed… but fatiguing.


    Pay more to fatigue less, but give up that high end detail in the process? Hmmm
     
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  8. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Not sure it's actually high end detail, take the same song and overlay the two rips in a spectrum analyzer and you'll probably see the added detail is a fatiguing 4-5dB boost at around 10K with the AT440MLa.
     
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  9. Did you use the Nova II in your profile for the newer rip? Or the same built in on the integrated?
     
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  10. chris8519

    chris8519 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Yes, nova II for this new rip. Original rip was using a Yamaha integrated amp preout to my PC sound card. Edit: back then it was a 70s CR420 integrated. Not my current A-S2100!

    I mean, those old Yamahas had good phono preamps but on par with the Nova? Ehhh.
     
  11. chris8519

    chris8519 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    This is true. When I compare the two files (same song from each rip) I see much MUCH more balanced response from the ART9. And it extends much higher too, all the way up to 48khz. The older rip doesnt to that far.

    also at the end of songs, the noise profile is lower on the new ART9 rip.

    so the tip up in the treble on the old rip, which gives the illusion of “more detail” might just be a trick they use for that cartridge.

    but damned if I don’t mentally think “this old rip is providing more detail, but kind of blurring the soundstage ever so slightly”.
     
  12. chris8519

    chris8519 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Frankly I was just expecting much more air and detail to the ART9. Like a “no contest” scenario that included all the best parts of my older rip using the 440mla… and then layered in a wider soundstage or more focused detail or something.


    But they’re nearly identical, except for the brightness in the old rip. Is 200 ohm enough for this cart? Raising it will provide… more “detail?”
     
  13. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    With Nova II and the Technics 1200G, I was running the ART9 at 120 ohms and it was very airy, much more than any other than my cartridges.
    It has a source impedance of 12 ohms so 200 ohms is on the high side imo.
    Still, this is system dependent so I would try to see how it sounds with higher than 200 but not too higher.
     
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  14. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Focusing on the positives the ART9 is the cleanest most noise free cartridge I have ever heard and the presentation is smooth but not what I would call lacking treble or air.
    A few things to check-
    VTA. If you have not accurately calibrated where your true level condition is on the dial do so.
    get a small round nickel sized bubble level. adjust the VTF to compensate for its weight and put it on the flat part of the headshell. lower on to a non moving record and see how level it is. make sure the platter is also level.
    adjust the VTA dial until it is dead centered.
    set the level aside and re adjust VTF. note the dial number that corresponds to level and record it.
    now adjust to .5mm tail up. see how that sounds.
    Cable. Use an ultra short cable between table and phono pre, half or .6 meter. make sure it is silver plated copper, DH Labs silver sonic is great and reasonable. Use a regular length cable from pre to amp, same spec silver plated copper. Use this type or cable for connecting to create your vinyl rip.
    Loading. Definitely try a higher loading if needed.
    Stylus. Make sure it is pristine and use AT solvent once a week.
    Good luck.
     
  15. Wattie66

    Wattie66 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    I think what you're experiencing is the 'massive upgrade fallacy' aka the 'chalk and cheese chimera' which seems to be a major failing associated with audiophilitis. Basically what this boils down to is that any decent vinyl setup is going to get you to 95% of the total capabilities possible, and everything else is chasing that last 5%, (especially when taking into account external limitations such as the frequency range of human hearing). The AT440MLa, set up correctly in a nice system, was a very good cartridge, and what you're hearing, (a slightly more refined presentation), is some of the extra 5% which the ART9 is giving you. But to expect more is probably unrealistic. Maybe if you went from a Crossley to a VPI then the difference really would be 'chalk and cheese' or 'night and day', but any review that uses such phrases when comparing two competent performing components and uses such phrases is talking hyperbolic nonsense.
     
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  16. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Interesting. What cartridges have you experienced this with and what do you use now?
     
  17. Wattie66

    Wattie66 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    So as an illustration, 15 years ago I started ripping my vinyl, and the system I used was an AT440MLa mounted on a standard PL112D turntable into a Sansui AU-317 integrated, (using the on board phono stage), using an external Soundblaster USB soundcard. My current system is a SAM Renegade TT with the Callista uni-pivot arm, a Dynavector DV20X2 into a Sutherland PH3d phono stage into a Primare i22 amp. OK so not crazy expensive, but on the 'audiophile scale' certainly 'chalk and cheese' from my old system, and if I rip the same record using the same Soundblaster USB soundcard certainly there's a difference - a tad more instrument separation, a little bit more refinement and clarity, a touch better soundstage, but you have to listen really hard to notice it, and if you were just listening to the old AT440MLa rip to enjoy the music without anything to compare to I don't think you'd have anything to complain about i.e. by most yardsticks it sounds very good.
     
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  18. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    depends on what you consider "massive"
    I used an Ortofon 2M Black for over a year and decided I wanted another LOMC. The ART9 was suggested to me. I tried it and after it was dialed and settled in as well as comparing it back to the Ortofon on several occasions I made the following observations-

    The Ortofon was a distorted, noisy machine compared to the squeaky clean refinement of the ART9. In the treble there was simply no comparison, especially noticeable on recordings that have challenging, bright top end. For this reason alone I would say the ART9 was a significant upgrade.

    The Ortofon struggled with dynamic energy and timing as well as keeping its composure during complex musical passages. The ART9 had excellent speed and dynamics and brought lots of energy to the sound. It never struggled with any of my recordings. Another significant upgrade.

    The Ortofon cast a short, narrow sound stage. The ART9 blew me away with how large of a sound stage it projected. Another significant upgrade.

    The Ortofon had a detailed yet somewhat dry, sterile presentation. Musical colors were not saturated. The ART9 is the most colorful sounding caartridge I have ever heard, a true ultra refined high end sound. Another significant upgrade.

    Taken together it is difficult for me not to call going from the $750 2M Black to the $999 (at the time) ART9 anything short of a massive upgrade for my ears and my system. And the 2M Black is a very good cartridge.
     
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  19. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    how many hours on it?
    another thing you might try is demagnetizing it- very easy and harmless. i have seen it remove the veil from the sound.

     
  20. ivor

    ivor Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    @chris8519 Do you have other vinyl rips you can compare? I would think the Arcade Fire album was recorded digitally, but I'm too lazy to even google it.

    I needledropped some things recently with my AT440mla to compare with Hana EL, if you want to DM me maybe we have some of the same albums and could spin up a new thread with comparisons.
     
  21. chris8519

    chris8519 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Well you’re right as always.
    I spent a few days slowly tweaking my setup and WOWWWW I think I finally got this thing in the right spot.

    I noticed my geometry was off, with the stylus being a bit too far forward in the headshell and cocked a little to the left. That helped a bit.
    I also upped impedance to ~380 ohms and gain to 58db. It sings a little more and I noticed less surface noise.

    but then I played with VTA and wow, what a difference. I originally had it all the way down on my 1200mk2; lower than 0, as low as you could turn the ring.
    I raised it to 2mm, and immediately noticed a much more focused image. It has the air and detail I’m looking for, but didn’t trade warmth or bass.



    This is more my style and fulfills the tone I was looking for. Might be a bit extreme VTA but it is much more engaging and 3D now.
     
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  22. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Awesome Chris, glad you have the '9 dialed in. !! Peace.
     
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  23. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Kind of a follow-up summary for anyone landing on this thread-
    The premise being the notion that the Audio Technica AT ART9 series cartridges are the "Real Deal", meaning a true high end audiophile cartridge capable of competing with the sound quality of cartridges that are much more expensive.
    It started with the original ART9 higher output MC at .5mv and the answer, according to three very lengthy user threads, is an unqualified yes.
    The newer ART9s are the ART9XI (.5mv) and the ART9XA (.2mv).
     
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  24. timzigs

    timzigs Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Central PA
    Noticed that the XA is no longer listed in your gear -- are the Delos and Cadenza Blue your preferences these days?
     
  25. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Correct. The Cadenza Blue just edges it out overall but the Delos trounces it.
    I sold the XA because it really needed a SUT because my phono preamp did not have enough gain for the .2mv. Still an incredible cartridge and ironically I am buying a SUT.
    Next cartridge will be an XI.
     
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