Audio Technica VM540ML vs Nagaoka MP-500

I finally had a chance to listen to the @vinyldoneright sample.

It is VERY different from mine and sounds excellent. I don't know what he did but his nickname is appropriate, this is vinyl done right indeed.

Sounds so different that I suspect one of the main reasons, besides cartridge, phono stage, and other hardware, is that it's a different pressing. The difference in the snare's reverb noticed by @bever70 is dramatic and so is the vocal's reverb. Sounds almost like a different mix.

@patient_ot I checked and matrix says "RCA" before the number. This means Brazilian BMG Ariola manufacturer, that was long ago associated with American RCA, so the lacquer was very likely cut here. check this discogs entry: BMG Ariola Discos Ltda. Divisão Sonopress

If anything, this thread taught me I need a UK copy of this record

Anyway, the main reason of this thread was to know if by comparing my files you would hear the same as I did, than I would know it was not my confirmation bias, and it seems like you all did. Also I got tips on how to make my experience better. Thank you for sharing your impressions and knowledge.

 

Well, I dunno that I heard all of those superlatives when comparing the Nag and the AT. Yeah the Nag was a "little" better in that example (not 3x the cost better) but I can't say I was overly impressed by either one. No ding on the OP, but they both sounded a little flat, dimensionally. The clip that vinyldoneright is what my AT540 cart sounds like overall. However, I haven't made any recordings with it, because it's not in the system that I use for recording. I'm just comparing how the textures blend together.

To me, the takeaway here is that setup is everything.

 

I suspect your Brazilian pressing is on par or worse than the U.S. Sire pressings, which weren't that good. If you compare a U.S. Sire to say the MOFI it's night and day, seriously.

It was the same thing with the U.S. Sire CDs. They sound weak and don't really give you the full picture of the band. The Rhino editions from 2003/2004 sound way better.

I'm not saying U.S. Sire pressings are bad in all cases but for the Bunnymen in particular they just weren't that good. Same with the Smiths IMHO.

 

I found US Sire, and Korova pressings from UK, France, and Germany for sale here in Brazil. Unfortunately, the UK one is almost twice the price of the others. I don't wanna take my chances with a French or German pressing without some research. I'll take my time.

 

During the early 80s, some albums for UK releases in the UK market were actually pressed elsewhere. I have a first UK Bunnymen Porcupine and it's pressed in Germany IIRC. Definitely do your research. Biggest problem you will have is condition issues.

I can order UK pressings of my favorite post-punk albums all day on Discogs but most of them will be shipping from Europe and 9/10 times they will be overgraded with shaved off inner grooves.

 

Yeah, I've got one of those, bought at a Liverpool gig at the time. Would like to hear the MOFI pressing though.

 

Best thing about the MOFI pressing is the drums - very, very present. Not bloated either.

 

This thread has prompted me to pull out my copy of Heaven Up Here to play sometime on Friday on the MP500 ... in Liverpool tomorrow & will drop into one of the bars in Matthew St (site of original Cavern, across the road from the former Eric's - where I first heard the Bunnymen) to listen to whatever bands happen to be playing.

 

I guess the fact that I connect my Halo to my old Macbook with a $1 RCA-P2 doesn't help either.

 

Ideally you'd want an audio interface of some sort. That could be around $200ish or thousands of dollars depending on what route you'd want to take.

 

@patient_ot I found an unexpensive German Korova pressing and bought it just to compare with the Brazilian pressing. It's not in a great shape, too noisy even after a first clean. However, good enough to compare. Check it out and compare it to the Nag of the first post. The difference is huge, the German pressing is really much better. It has that missing reverb and echo, the guitars sound more alive and natural, even a bit brighter, and the soundstage is better too. Try not to focus on the surface noise but on the music:

Brazilian pressing: Dropbox - na.wav
German pressing (MP-500 with Jelco headshell): Dropbox - nakoje.wav
German pressing (MP-500 with Technics headshell): Dropbox - nakote.wav

First file is with a heavier Jelco headshell with the auxiliary counterweight, second is with the stock headshell. I recorded both to see if I could hear any difference between the headshell/weight that changes resonance, not really what this thread is about, but since I recorded both I thought I'd show you both.

 

Checked these out real quick just now. It definitely sounds like these two pressings were cut from entirely different tape sources.

 

Having messed around with this stuff for a few decades, my take is that the cartridges sound different, rather than one sounding better than another. I only see "better" in specs. Like better separation, stuff like that.

In amplifiers, "warm" means color. Color means "distortion". But for some it is a very pleasing sound, and others it is not. It can enhance some types of music while seeming to reducing the fidelity of other music.

I use snapseed on my phone to modify photographs. I find that I almost ALWAYS increase the "warmth" of landscape photos. Sometimes the effect is dramatic, but it is, at the end of the day, changing the original.

 

As does my 760SLC

 

With music, the only "original" you will get is standing next to the musician while they play. Anything after that is a copy, and not an exact one. Just like "modifying" a photo, sometimes it's more pleasing than the original.
In real life, playing music that sounds good is probably more about synergy (between hardware,) than accuracy. You can have a very accurate amp, phono stage and speakers, but if they don't pair well, the music won't sound right.

 

Yep. This is why the rep told me (back in 1977) that for my ESS speakers I should avoid the MC cartridge and go for the ADC ZLM. I did and it sounded fantastic.

 

This is a little different. Sometimes a camera may interpret the white balance differently than it may be, and correction is needed. Just because it was captured that way, doesn’t mean it must be true.

 

I think a better comparison would be the MP-500 vs the VM760SLC. They are both the flagship models in their classes.

 

It seems a little crazy to compare the VM540 ML with the MP- 500 - but fun I guess! I have lived a little while with the VM 540 ML after a MP200
and I still like both - but in different ways. On my Gyrodec/Techno arm setup the VM540ML has a deeper bass The MP200 has a more forward mid and upper bass
so lends itself well to Jazz it seems. I have a home made 'Capacifier' which can switch the resistance loading and also add capacitance - also my Phono stage switches between 100 & 200pf
The MP 200 was marginally smoother at 100pf The VM 540ML sound almost too smooth but has a lift in the treble - the resistance loading can tame the HF lift however!
Its a game of try it and see really - But bottom line the VM 540 ML has more subtlety a wider soundstage and deeper bass..The MP-200 counters with a tight percusive midrange.
The VM 540 is even better than the MP200 at tracking and seems completely immune to any tracking test I throw at it - even if I purposely mess with the Anti skate settings!
My issue with the Nags is that until you get an MP500 (which is possibly too polite sounding) you are stuck with that badly sized stylus. Maybe a 200 or 300 with the 500 stylus is the answer??Meanwhile the VM 540ML plays musically and smoothly with anything I play - for the price I reckon its hard to beat.

 

That's it, crazy and just for fun as I stated in the OP. I wanted to see if you guys would also think the Nag clip sounded better, whatever the reason (capacitance, set up etc.), just to see if it was not just me under some placebo effect. First three who answered agreed with me, so that's it. As a good side effect, I learned that the Brazilian pressing of that Echo record sucks and bought myself a better one.

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I have lived with, and experimented with, the AT VM540ML for a while now.
My conclusions on m Gyrodec/Techno arm ar that it does, indeed, have a bit of a High frequency rise.. but not an ugly one.
Initially adding 200pf makes the whole treble range a little obvious - Loading it with 100kohm helps tame it but immediately there develops a slight presence droop
So we now have a drop and a smaller treble lift! at 47kohm the HF is spot on but we have a presence droop - Adding 200pf at this point and its as sweet as!
No Presence droop, and a nice smooth top end.