Audio Technica's new VM cartridge series

Not yet, still waffling and saving!

 

I'm done waffling --- just bought one! (the VM750sh)

Already own the 95e, 120eb, 440mlb, at33mono from AT --- figure why not try their shibata too!

I will report out what I find. I have multiple tables to try it on so I'll put it through its paces!!

 

Looking forward to your feedback.

I’m very curious. I’m useing the 440ml now and like to try this out when I get my new turntable

 

Just for fun, my AT cartridge lineup.

Left to right - playing is the 440mlb (Warren Zevon Excitable Boy ), the AT33Mono, 95EX, 120EB, AT95e, and Mono3/LP....

.... and add the new 750sh now on the way!
Can't remember the last time I played the 95e or 95ex.... as evidenced by them not being mounted!

 

Most certainly! I will check back in with my observations....

 

What would be the advantage of a shibata over an elliptical? I have heard great care must be taken setting up a shibata or else you end up with a fail.

 

First, I am NOT a cartridge engineer but realize the shibata ultimately is a variant of the line contact category.... and "advantage" of course is debatable on cartridge types. But the story / marketing is line contacts, because of their smaller profile, reach deeper into the groove to retrieve more detail, and also track better since they run deeper.

Anyway, have you seen the Ledermann vids? He is a big proponent of line contacts. There are many sources / opinions, but he does a fairly good job at explaining.... I don't agree with everything he says, but he knows a lot more about this topic than I ever will!!! (I don't share his disdain for conicals.... I own a number and good ones are good IMHO).

https://i.imgur.com/WtDCioH.jpg

 

Oh, I have plenty of experience with line contact (microline) stylus. Never have had a shibata though. I would be interested in a good comparison (shoot-out) between these types of stylus.
Like, have the same vinyl pressing played with both, and what are the differences? (detail? tone?)

 

Ah, I see.... in a few weeks I'll give my thoughts on the 750 vs 440. I have the same questions and have been curious on a "compared to what" basis. Now I'll be able to compare the AT 120, 440 and 750 and make up my own story! (elliptical, microline, shibata in the same brand of cart)

I owned an Orto shibata years ago, but it was on a different table, and can't recall much comparison-wise...

 

Cool. This is the path that I may take (540 to 750sh).

 

hi just bought member's system 2m blue i think. any1 go from blue to at cartrige?

 

Then, once one has the 700 series cart body.... all one has to do is buy the stylus to see what all the 760slc fuss is about ! It never ends!! (actually that one might be too pricey for many).

BTW, I view the AT carts like the Denon carts - great bang for the buck in many lines / styles. I have a full complement of Denon carts too.

 

Ya, running a DL-110 (my second,) right now. Love it.

 

As I said in another thread.. I do have a 30EN and 40ML that I use on a AT150MLX body. As far as I know the body is pretty much the same as the 700 series.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that there are different types of line contact styli that are different sizes and patented shapes. The microline or microridge is one of the very smallest, finest shapes on the market. It's very different than the more standard, bigger line contact tip you find on carts like the 2M Bronze and others. Generally, even among line contact types, the smaller and finer the profile is, the better the stylus will be at tracking inner grooves and general detail retrieval.

This has been my experience comparing microline, shibata, and Gyger styli. The shibata and Gyger are more forgiving (don't retrieve as much detail) but also don't sail through the inner grooves the way a microline does. That said, they all track better than a standard elliptical or conical stylus.

 

I think you need two more headshells!

Don't forget you can interchange those styli on those cart bodies. That could make an interesting comparison too, even if only by your audible impressions, and I would be interested.

 

Have you tried any AT shibata by chance? I agree with your assessment on the Orto, I used to own one and was not that impressed, I always had a little IGD no matter how precise I aligned. The IGD disappeared when I went to the 440mlb... Just my experience I am sure some will have a different one! So YMMV.

They'll track better in the "modern" grooves... (as I know you know).

A little OT for those that might care about the topic...

If playing a mid 50's mono LP with a 1mil groove, I am not choosing a microline or elliptical or any other modern cart. Conical all the way... and moreover 1 mil conical if you got it! (I rigged up a cool Rek O Cut 1.0mil replica stylus on a Stanton body, and strapped the hot / ground to simulate mono for my early to mid 50's mono's -- getting good results!). A nice DL-102 will work too, but leaving a little detail on the table since it is not the "ideal" choice for that groove cut.

Same with the early Mono / Stereo 0.7mil groove from the late 50's / early 60's, the conical 0.7mil is the best cartridge for those too. Back then these modern carts & exotic shapes were not mainstream / available, and many LP's were designed and referenced around the 0.7 mil conical, like the DL-102 or 103 --- both of which I own. The DL-102 is a fabulous cartridge for late 50's or early 60's mono 0.7 mil groove. Then the DL-103 for the early stereo cut. I knew when I started playing early LP's with ellipticals and line contacts it was not sounding right, not retrieving the details correctly. After experimenting / researching it all started making sense.... and when I started targeting the right styli for the era.

So it's relative -- I have 100's of mono and stereo LP's up through the early 60's (jazz, classical mostly) and my go to is the 0.7mil or 1.0mil conical. By the mid 60's (as early as '64 for some shops, as late as near 1970 for others) the mono lathes were ditched, and the newer stereo lathes (similar to what is used today) became prevalent, and that's where I play LP's with the modern carts.

NOTE most won't go through all this trouble... but I say smoke 'em if you got 'em! It was fun experimenting and learning all this --- mostly driven by the near 1000 early stereo / mono LP's I have accumulated and it was clear I was leaving some SQ on the table!! I know most get overwhelmed by this topic and the detail, and would like to just push a mono "button" and call it done --- I get it, and used to do it too. But I am sure you hear the loss of detail when you plop that microline on a 1958 Mono RCA.... and hit the mono button!

As always in this hobby there are no absolutes! Conicals still have their place in this hobby for those who collect early mono / stereo LP's!! Cheers.

 

I have not tried any AT shibata. I'd ask AT what the dimensions are. There are small and larger sized shibatas as well as nude vs. bonded ones. The highest quality is going to be the nude, smaller profile. IIRC the AT is nude but I'm not sure what the dimensions are. The microline profile should be smaller and finer than just about any shibata profile on the market.

 

I've not been able to find the dimensions anywhere for the ATN150SA that I"m currently running in my 150mlx body. All I can find is that is is a nude square shank Shibata (microline).

The Audio-Technica VMN50SH Shibata Nude Stylus is listed as 2.7 x .26 mil.

 

Using some conversion calculators and going by the info below, it looks like the VMN50SH is the "large" tip design.

Stylus Shape Information | Soundsmith

Proportions of the Shibata design

• 6 x 75 um - Shibata "large" design
• 6 x 50 um - Shibata "small" design

You'll have to contact AT for info on the 150SA, but I'm guessing it's the same tipe that's on the VMN50SH or very close to it.

 

I prefer the AT7v over my 440mla, more midrange and realistic high end. Usually Japan only but available at LP Gear.

Audio-Technica AT7V phono cartridge

 

Somewhere in between large and small, 2.7 mil = 68 micron

 

Ordered one yesterday.
Then realized the new VM95's are now available

 

Wow huge price increase for AT cartridges without any improvement mechanical or electrical. Actually they're downgraded ordinary cantilever materials no longer any Microcline Styli on MMs.

 

The Shibata is a type of microline.