Audiophiles don't really want NEUTRAL. Audiophiles don't really like NEUTRAL.

Question is, does Shure V15 still measured flat with the proper capacitive loading as you indicated? If not, what's the argument, you like colored sound.


*p.s. I believe Vidiot measured flat with normal capacitive loading on his setup.

 

You're probably right, that everyone has a hot button, but Isn't the difference between a "just" perfect reproduction of single technical aspects and that snap, that it get's "real" and "lifelike" in terms of 3D (and dynamics), what it's all about at the end (and not easy and cheap to achieve)? That's the moment when one doesn't think anymore of "treble extension", "bass impact", "resolution", "tonality". This was already achieved before...IMO what Steve mentioned is the step to just the "music" as the experience, when you don't care about any technical aspects anymore

 

Jeff, Steve's comment included "the sound remained pretty much neutral, but wow what a difference".

I would have said that Steve discovered an added facet to the recording that he hadn't heard before, but not necessarily at the expense of neutrality.

 

Please add the overuse of aspirin to this list. Aspirin is toxic to the inner ear.

 

Ok Steve, so far you've described bloom as " mid range magic" and the experience you've had with the tube preamp giving that 3-D dimensionality with the Dean Martin recording. Assuming, for the moment, that these are the same thing, would it be fair to say that this effect is dependant on the particular synergy of a system? Did that preamp deliver this effect on every system you tried it on(did you try it on another system?)? The point I'm trying to make, and the experience that I've had, is that the effect of 3-D sound is dependant on, not only linear componentry, but maintaining phase correct integrity in the speaker. What I'm postulating is that the tube effect is somehow interacting with the not completely accurate phase angle in the speaker's crossover, thus delivering that corrected 3-D sound. Does that make any sense at all?
I shall have to seek out that CD and give it a spin.
It has been my experience that the very best tube gear is suspiciously similar to excellent solid state gear in that it is very linear and is distortion free throughout its frequency range.

 

That would depend in part on the volume you normally listen at. Lower volumes can use a little bass boost. This is the logic behind the now-extinct 'loudness' button. It has to do with how our ears respond to sound at different volumes.

On the other hand, it could be a case of being accustomed to playing the music on the 'spicy' setting. As is normal, when going down to flat it would, at first, sound a little dull, until your ears got used to it.

 

I recorded the www.tarawinds.org yesterday afternoon and came home after hearing some good sound through my Sony 7506s ( i know what they are and they are not AKG 701's. Santa may be listening). I used a pair of Rode NT-1As in ORTF and 3 pencil omni's in a DECCA TREE (which I love by the way) and until I moved my speakers 8 feet apart min did the sound begin to agree with my cans. 7 feet was close, but 8 feet seemed to produce the magic I was looking for. I fed the Rode's into my Sony DAT for back up and my DECCA TREE into my laptop with Sony Sound Forge. I only did redbook yesterday as it was only a practice session and I was trying to burn more with my trial of Sony CD Architect to see if I liked it enough to buy. I think it is the best CD burning program I have used so far.

I sitll have a long way to go, but progress is happening for sure. December has a number of concerts to be recorded for real. Speaker placement is something I will be agonizing over much more in the future.

 

Jim,

Do you have any pics of your Decca tree arrangement?

 

Hey! I'm flattered that Steve read something I wrote enough to create a whole thread!

In my case, I chalked it down to a mastering thing. I just went in and knocked the highs up about 1.5 dB @ 10K, and it sounded fine to me. Not a big deal.

I actually do prefer neutral in terms of the playback system not adding or subtracting anything from the work done by the mastering engineer. The problem for me is, if the system is veering away from neutral, the effects are going to be unpredictable at best -- making some things sound a little better, and some a little worse.

Me, I'm firmly in the "just gimme some truth" category. [And I agree with Grant that many of the 1990s Rhino-mastered CDs are a little too bright. Still.]

 

I have used mic stands to simulate the positioning at this point, but I am about to embark upon a construction project of making one that will screw apart with piping that I will have painted flat black. I also believe that I will have the bottom vertical section be 6 feet with various threaded extenders that will be 3, and 4 feet to start with to get the height I need. The top "T" length is 6 feet wide running at 9 and 3 O'clock with the leg running 3 feet out to the center 12 O'clock position of the horseshoe arrangement of the ensembles.

The vertical center pipe will be threaded into a 6" square by 2" aluminum block threaded to accept 4 extender floor legs pipes in a "math + sign" arrangement. I will have to decide uptimately how long each of those pipes must be for secure stability and what weight to add to hold it firmly in place the higher I decide to go.

The fact that this will be portable pretty much eliminates astetics. I'm thinking that inch and a half pipe should be stable enough and be portable enough as well. The prices of premade units is beyond my budget. One vertical pipe should be less obtrusive than 3 large mic stands...with the good ones that aren't cheap either. All the piping is from good old Home Depot. My son can do the painting for me. I will do pics when finished.

And I thought this was going to be fun and real easy. Ya, right! Bascially a nice Saturday project. I'll have the baseblock done at a machine shop to make sure I start off square.

 

I'm a man on a mission now!

 

Yah, this and the Dean Martin "Capitol Collectors Series"

 

Thanks, Steve!

Any similar acid test with less enjoyable music, or better, music from a test CD?

 

So this is an admission that cables do indeed make a difference in system sound?

 

Only if you hear it.

 

But is it really necessary that all agree what neutral sounds like? From the experiment Vidiot explains in the post that Steve cites, it would appear that "neutral" is a measurable point regardless of the vagaries of individual hearing. The problem seems to be not whether "neutral" exists, but do people know what it means to establish whether or not their systems or components are "neutral."

 

Always have. Not a huge diff, but noticeable.

 

Far-out...I've always set-up my stereo with pink noise & never told anyone for fear they would think I was crazy. It's a great way for me to hear balance & frequency matching between speakers & ambiance in the room. Wicked...