Audiophiles Once Loved Direct Drive, Now They Seem To Hate It

I happen to agree with your point, but devotees of idlers despite their rumble and belts despite their speed issues seem to think there is room for debate. Personally, my ears have liked a whole lot of very different tables, and I am sure some or all of them had measurable issues. Fortunately I could not discern them.

 

I have both. I love both. Belt visually is more seductive and mechanical looking. I enjoy seeing that way. My direct drive is no nonsense low maintenance and fully automatic. I really enjoy both.

 

I see your point
The preference for the type of distortion or signal degradation is debatable. Or the visual and 'feel' or 'atmosphere' factor.

But the numbers are the numbers. If measured using the same methods/standards at a given price point, even in the $x0,000 range, the DD almost always fares better.

But the tonearm, et al, are a big factor in the overall result. But imho when only speed/W&F/rumble are quantified, I believe the debate is, shall I say, limited.

Is one 'better', not really, in general terms.
Preference. It's good to have choices.

 

I don’t think I’ve ever spent extensive time with a belt driven turntable. Perhaps one day I’ll get a nice one and see what all the fuss is about.

 

I mean, enjoy the discussion everybody, but I’m waiting for even one single recent citation or quotation to back up the premise of the thread. “Now audiophiles seem to hate direct-drive turntables” should be an easy thing to substantiate if it’s actually happening, or some kind of emerging world-turned-upside-down breaking news.

Having just been shopping for a second turntable I read a lot of back and forth on DD vs. belt-driven, a lot of preferences expressed on both sides, lots of both Rega world and Technics world advocacy, but everything I’ve been seeing has been pretty sedate in tone, with plenty of advantages-on-both-sides comments.

 

Having started reading Hi-Fi magazines in the late seventies and worked in the Hi-Fi industry in the eighties and nineties, as we say in the UK, you have this, "ar*e about face".

Reading some threads on this forum it is clear that there are a number of very pro DD owners who almost insult owners of belt drive turntables with some almost libelous comments.

The only measureing devices that mean anything to me when it comes to listening to music are my ears. I also did an electrical apprenticeship and was a Calibration Engineer before leaving to sell Hi-Fi.

Interestingly now working in a manufacturing environment, with Six Sigma, lean principles and continuous improvement, I have learnt the phrase "without measurements we are nothing".....

I wonder if you could measure how far the hairs on the back of your neck move?? That measurement would be far more important to me than an irrelevant wow and flutter figure, unachievable in a real room with environmental noise and a non-commercial acetate.

A number of belt drive turntables have achieved extremely good measurements - whoopee-doo!!

 

If not audiophiles, I wonder who is buying all those amazing new direct drive tables from the likes of STST, Brinkman, Thrax, VPI, Technics, etc ....

 

I've owned belt drives, idlers, and direct drives over the years and have enjoyed them all. I currently own two idlers, a Dual 1019 and 1229, and a Dual 701 direct drive. If I could only keep one it would be the 701.

 

Ah, the first of the coreless motor direct drives, really set the trend for what came a few years later in the golden era of the super table.

 

I don't call myself an "audiophile" but of the turntables I've owned, the only ones that never disappointed in the end were DD. I no longer own any belt drive tables.

 

In this camp as well- have both & enjoy both. I enjoy the dead simple design of the belt drive Orbit, but it’s nice to have the semi-auto feature and reliability of the Technics DD. You can get excellent decks or junk in both categories.

 

This is a Belt Vs. Direct Drive thread, disguised as a "many people are saying" thread.

 

Hmm .
My experience has been just the opposite.
It always seemed to me the DD guys were looked at as the bottom rung. Far mare high end belt drive tables have been produced.

 

I honestly prefer DD, even though my main turntable is a belt drive.

I was under the impression, however, that (good quality) DD turntables have been held in higher regard by audiophiles in recent years.

 

If listening to music with a cartridge matched to the TT, through the same system, and the TT's are ~ the same $, I could not tell the difference.

imo the difference is instrumented, not audible.

 

A one piece Platter of substantial constant thickness with a ridgidly affixed axle shaft and a tuned suspension of a well designed belt drive vs the flimsy bell like multi piece platters of most direct drive tables that lack a suspension unless you consider four rubber feet a tuned suspension.

 

Admittedly, while my Pioneer PLX-1000 sounds incredible for what it is... The motor in it is not up to the spec of my 40ish year old Technics SL-D1. Belt-like w&f from something that originally MSRP'd for $700 (I bought for $350 new so I can't complain that much), vs. a beaten up looking, bare bones Technics from 40 years ago that I paid maybe $130 for. I believe situations like this are what have given DD turntables a bad name nowadays. Built like tanks, but the sound and electronics don't match the quality of Technics or other manufacturers of days gone by.

If I didn't have to sell my kidney and/or my project car to buy one of the new Technics 1200 turntables, I'd replace the Pioneer I own, and probably never think twice about owning another turntable, regardless of what it was.

 

I don't hate DD tables, just Technics SL-1200 owners, LOL

I guess hate is not the word to used because that's not true. What I dislike is the ignorance on the web and the fanaticism of some of the owners thinking it's the best table in the world and nothing is better at any cost.

Is the SL-1200 a decent table? sure, it works and does what it should do.
Is it better than all other tables? No
Can you have a table with the best specs in the whole world beyond any hearing capability and yet the table doesn't sound good? Yes

The problem with talking about audio products on the web, is you'll have a much larger numbers of people with inexpensive equipment shouting the loudest. This is the SL-1200 base, that really haven't tried a great number of tables at all price points. In fact most occasions it's the best table and most expensive one they ever had and they will argue to the death it's the best table ever made.

I have tried and owned a great number of tables including still having a SL-1200 Mk II, and many others. It's just not the best sounding deck and is foolish to even put on that level.

That all said, there are quite a few new DD high end tables, I haven't listen to any of them but they are out there if one wishes to give them a try. There is also a lot of so called audiophile belt drive tables that offer nothing more than a platter, board and rubber band and slap a high price on it. They are not the best table in the world either........

YMMV

 

I think fashion has a lot to do with it. Back when I was still new to the hobby, idler drive and then direct drive "had rumble problems" and belt drive was the way to go. Then it became "belt drive takes too long to come up to speed and isn't as steady" but "direct drive is instant-on and no speed issues." More recently, "idler drive gives a better tonal balance and imaging than direct drive or belt drive." And on and on. The one thing all seem to agree is that "what the masses are using right now" must be bad.

Boy, it sure is a good thing nobody's thought to start a debate like that about digital vs. analogue recording techniques!

For myself, I don't hate either technology. I love my direct drive.



I love my belt-drive, too.

 

Well, there's a lot of hostility against DD indeed, but it used to be much more, when solid DD turntables from Japan started to threaten the European/US turntable industry that were making suspended belt drive designs.
Idk much about US hifi history, but over here in Europe, Linn used to practice some quite aggressive marketing campaigns to keep people buying the turntables they were always buying (things like spreading misinformation etc.).
Exclusivity contracts between hifi stores and Linn were part of their anti-competitive way of doing business.
I believe there were more companies doing these kind of things, but the story behind Linn is the most well known.

Luckily times have changed and more companies start to acknowledge that DD has its merits - that's why VPI, while traditionally a belt drive TT manufacturer, sells a DD as their ultimate top model (HW-40) and even Thorens has started making DD turntables (TD402DD and TD124DD).

Plenty people still hate the Technics 1200 turntables though, because "they look like DJ decks" - people who listen with their eyes.

 

Not counting my parent's '60s era Electrohome console, and a Sears record changer (with ceramic cartridge), I've only ever owned three turntables: an AR-77XB (belt drive - and really regret having traded it away long ago); Pioneer PL-510A (DD - still have it, but it's in storage); and a Yamaha P-850 (DD - in "use" - rarely - in my main HT.)

I only developed a deep love, not hate, for all three of them.

The differences come down to features, not performance. The AR was every bit as good as the other two at playing records.

Jeff

 

I'd really like a British direct drive turntable, with good looks and one of the most accurate drive systems ever!




The Gale GT2101 was from 1974 and was preceded by the first of a very well known belt drive design manufacturer, Rega with the Planet, predecessor of the Planar models.

 

Yes, this is a thinly veiled DD vs BD thread.
I don't recall DD ever being the darling in most circles.
Personally, I own four of each. Enjoy them all, but if'n I'm listening critically I'm looking to my better DD.
But that means nothing to anyone but me.
And that's the same for all posts here?
Rock on!

 

They did that to all turntable, nothing exclusive to DD
Speaking of fanatics online Linn and SL-1200 owners are the tops.

Well the HW-40 is not their TOTL table, not buy a long shot.

I know really, get something you like and enjoy it

 

IME, Rega owners are there too!!![