B&W Blues

Talked to my Yamaha guy today - they're not being brought into the U.S. as of yet. Something to do with California restrictions regarding CARB compliance! I'm serious.

 

Proof of my NS-5000 investigation:

 

Nice. Akihabara?

 

Wilson no longer uses the Focal beryllium tweeters that many of us found too clinical. They are now using a silk dome tweeter in the Yvette and uprange speakers that is far more musical to my ears.

 

Definitely...it was either BIC Camera or Yodobashi...Deep Purple - Machine Head on the CD player below the AS-3000 played good and loud.

 

Mate. Your Yamaha is a really good amp, but in my humble opinion, one should be matching an amp to speakers. Not the other way around, and definitely not in your situation where you are looking to purchase some amazing and expensive speakers.
Come to think about it, its those VU meters. Aren't they?
So, I propose the alternative solution for you. You get to keep your Yummy as an pre-amp.
Hook it up to a pair of mono blocks or a beefy power amp that can actually drive your future speakers properly.

Good luck. Hope you find the best solution for you.

Regards

 

They had the NS5000 paired with the A-S3000 in Montreal too. I only listened for a few minutes as it was later in the day and I had heard a lot of systems by then. I did like them though. FWIW, I thought the new Martin Logan speakers were excellent as were a set of expensive Joseph Audio speakers. Lots of wonderful choices if you are fortunate enough to be looking in that speaker category!

 

As mentioned previously, I'm in this situation because my aging speakers are failing and need replacement. Ideally I would be building a new system from the ground up. And I respectfully disagree that my amp won't be doing justice to most of the (expensive) speakers I've auditioned. Certainly the Wilson Yvettes are probably out of its league, but the 803 D3s (which I auditioned again today) aren't a bad match at all. Will be posting those impressions shortly, after I crack a beer.
Cheers!

 

I'm sorry , bro. I know the feeling.

Amazing speakers, I used to go to my audio shop 2-3 x a month, just to listen to the 80? 15" woofer ones, circa 1989-1990, chest slamming speakers with adcom monos, and then later the Mod squad amps, and carver silver sevens.
Mod squads sounded best followed by carvers brainchildren.

Youtube will find a wicked pair, and be back in business shortly. Hint, dynaudio.........hint, hint.

Enjoy the hunt, that's the fun part.

 

Okay, so went back to listen to the B&W 803 D3 again. This time we listened to it on the Linn solid state gear and then (for the heck of it) listened on the Audio Research tube gear alongside the Wilson Yvettes. Brought along my 17-year-old son this time for fresh ears and sarcastic remarks. Played the same songs alternately on both pairs of speakers. Once again using the hi res version of Getz and Gilberto's Girl From Ipanema to get things started. The detail in the mid, upper-mid, and high frequencies of the B&W was nothing short of incredible: clinical, maybe, but also very lifelike. The Wilson lacked that upper end detail (in comparison) but still sounded so sweet and nice. The bass on the B&Ws was likewise very resolving but didn't have the oomph of the Wilsons. Teenage son was shaking his head and declaring the Wilson sounded so much better that it "...isn't even funny". Next we listened to a lossless version of Bryan Ferry's Limbo (from the excellent album Bête Noire). Right away the Wilson's superior bass depth was apparent, but it was just a deeper bass (in my opinion) and didn't have the resolution of the B&W's. Still it sounded better (way better, according to my son). What the Wilsons gives up in resolution to the B&Ws, they make up for with a smoother (laid back?) presentation and a speaker that sounds like you could easily listen to it for hours on end without any fatigue - and it likes to get loud!

All of that being said, the Yvettes are out of my price range and too much speaker for my unassuming Yamaha amp. The 803s are precision instruments - they reveal things on familiar songs that I've never heard before. I don't think I would regret having them should I decide to pull the trigger. I still have ATCs to audition but these things are at the top of my list. The piano black is also being considered because it might help them blend into the shadows...

 

My suggestion, take your Yamaha integrated to the stereo store and have them play your amp through the speakers you are interested in. Take your 17 year old son as well, his hearing is better than yours.

I happen to own the 803 D3's. I also am quite familiar with Yamaha equipment dating back to the mid 70's. I presently still own a Yamaha B2 & C2 amp and pre amp along with a Yamaha CA2010 integrated.
Back in the day this was about as good as it got and I paid dearly for this equipment. It's all in the closet now. The CA2010 was one of the finest class "A" amps I have heard. It has been vastly surpassed.
The CA2010 is rated at 125 watts and 30 watts @ class A.

I wouldn't think of running the 803s using either one of my Yamaha amps. I traded in the 804 D2's for the 803's and believe they sound best with a lot of power.
I am presently using a McIntosh MA7900 which is 200 watts per channel. B&W speakers pair well with McIntosh equipment. However I think they are under powered using the MA7900.
Listening to the Wilsons using a Audio Research tube amp in not even in the same league as to what I own.
Eventually I will probably be going with a Audio Research amp and auditioning the Wilsons. At the very least I would consider the new McIntosh MA 9000 that just came out.

Unfortunately this hobby can easily become an addiction. You go into a stereo shop just looking for a new album or something, the next thing 3 hours go by and you leave with a new amp and speakers!
Been there and done that!

Good Luck!

 

Likewise, I would never consider running any new B&W 800-series loudspeakers using 30+ year old amplifiers of any make. The modern Yamahas are quite different from the gear you have in your closet. Don't just take my word for it, read this review of the new 803 D3s powered by a the recent Yamaha A-S3000.

Bringing my amp to the dealer is a good idea and one that has certainly crossed my mind.

 

in your price range, the harbeth 40.1 and atc scm50 should be auditioned.

 

After recently covering the California Audio Show I would like to recommend a bit of left of field maker - speakers that are easier to drive and IMO far better than any speaker on your list ANd I prefer them to virtually all other low efficiency designed loudspeakers I have heard as well. They are brand new $6,900US list. That would be the Pure Audio Project 15 Quintet loudspeakers. They don't need much power at all. There are a variety of choices for the tweeter band so this is the horn tweeter that I auditioned but they have other options. The amp was about 5 watts and drove them well in a largish room.



Quintet15, Wall of Sound Open Baffle Speakers - PureAudioProject

Here is a more domestic friendly Pure Audio Project with my old Line Magnetic 219IA

 

I'm a little surprised to see a lot of recommendations for amps with higher specs than lonelysea's A-S2100, which as mentioned earlier do 90 watts x 2 channels into 8 ohms and 150 watts x 2 channels into 4 ohms. The B&W 800-series speakers are rated at 90db efficiency. Now, sure, to fill a quite large room with a high SPL, I can see the need for a lot of power, but that consideration is true of any speaker. But the thrust of some of the comments here isn't really about the room size or SPL, it's about driving the B&W 800-series speakers well at all. I haven't heard these speakers. Can anyone comment on why an efficiently-rated speaker needs something more than the A-S2100 to drive it properly? Of course I'd love an electrical/acoustical engineering-type explanation but I welcome input from non-engineers with anecdotal explanations or evidence.

 

While nominally rated @ 8 ohms B&W 800 series can actually dip down to almost below 3 ohms at certain frequencies. I think Stereophile magazine posted the similar measurements in one of their reviews. BW 800 series speakers require high current amplification and, are a very fussy 'partners'.

Regards

 

That could be the sign of a great speaker...but it could also be an indication of a wacky frequency response with odd peaks. Of course, that could be the fault of the speaker, of some room interactions, or a combination of both...

 

I would second that. I did it once and having heard my amp followed by what the dealer had in stock, I quickly decided that I needed a new amp first and the new speakers could wait. YMMV. OTOH, if that Yamaha amp pulls it off (somehow), it's even better.

 

You're teenage son is right. I auditioned the Yvettes side by side with B&W 802D3's using the same electronics and the Yvette's were better in all aspects including the highs.

 

Agreed. My Mcintosh MC205 pair beautifully with my B&W 804 D3s. In a similar vein, the 804s also pair quite nicely with JL Audio Fathom subs, for some reason. The 804/JL combo is pretty awesome, IMO.

 

Take your son back and do the comparison with the Sabrina again if the Yvette's are out of your price range. There is something about being able to listen for hours on end and enjoying the music with Wilsons. That's why I bought them, I had Focal's prior.

If your room isn't as well treated as the dealers the top end is going to be way more active and pronounced in your room.

Finally, if you can take the speakers home and try them.

 

Please don't pay much attention to the Yamaha scaremongering.

 

I agree. IMHO the 800- series speakers are power hungry in general and they demand really good electronics upstream to bloom fully and I can imagine that the situation is similar with the Wilsons.

 

Richard, How do the Pure Audio Projects compare to your AN-E's?

 

@lonelysea Get your old speakers fixed professionally. You said you were really happy with your system before the breakdown. You'll get those Wilson's or new B & W's home and they might not sound as good in your room and you'll drive yourself crazy. If you still want to spend your savings after the repair, upgrade your source.