Backing up SACDs now possible..

SamS,

Am I right in thinking that your backups won't play on PS3 either, even though PS3 plays DSD Discs?

I'm not sure I'll be able to help you with SuperAuthor, as it is so long since I used it, and it would have been changed after I had my hands on it (to take into account M-ch editors, and their Edit Masters). I do know that Sonoma creates an interleaved .dff file for the audio and .edl file for the Track Start/End, and Index positions which the Sony authoring system could use directly. I was pretty sure that SuperAuthor could do the same, but I could well be wrong. Do you have mono or interleaved source files? I can't recall whether that made a difference, or not.

I'm still puzzled by the PSP aspect. It would seem that it is nothing more than a switch. The encryption groups were kept away from the rest of the development teams in order to keep the secrets secret! So, I can only relate what I was told the encryption mechanisms were supposed to do. I presume that this would be an easy firmware fix for any player manufacturer to adopt. The interesting thing then is what does this mean for the pressing plants? They no longer need a special PSP-equipped formatter on their DVD lines. Any DVD-5 line could make single-layer 'SACDs', and any DVD-9 line could make dual-layer 'SACDs'. If they do not use the name SACD, but something else, they might not have to pay an SACD royalty?

Time for folks to snap up those cheap Sony x70 and x80 Blu-Ray players that will play these discs, and then go HDMI to the DAC of your choice (which does limit your choices a bit, at this time!).

Now the $1,000,000 question: which sounds better? Original or back-up? Please explain your DBT method in full when replying!

 

Almost! I am very close. I now have the proper PS3, firmware, etc. I am just having a tough time compiling the SACD-ripper.pkg. If anyone knows anything about compiling packages via psl1ght, please PM me.

I don't know if that's a good route to take. Can DSD Discs even support 5.1? I don't know that you can author a DSD Disc like that. Of course, if you're only concerned with 2.0, that could be a workable solution.

You can't "insist" that OPPO do anything I've talked to them in detail about it before, it's just not likely to happen, especially with current (or past) players.

You are correct, the backups just lock up a PS3 or reports as a Data Disc.

I think interleaved .dff. But that's not the route I'm pursuing at the moment.

All good questions, not sure I have any answers. Here is a list of players that do/do not look for the PSP keys:

Code:

Stand alone players that can play SACD-R copies:
Play: 
Cambridge Audio Azur 650BD 
Denon DVD-2910 
Denon DVD-3910 
Marantz UD5005 
NAD M5 
NAD T585 
OPPO BDP-80 
OPPO BDP-83 
OPPO BDP-83SE 
OPPO BDP-93 
OPPO BDP-95 
Sony BDP-S370 
Sony BDP-S380 
Sony BDP-S570 
Sony BDP-S870 
Sony BDP-S970 
Yamaha BD-S1067 
Do not play: 
Accuphase DP-100 
Denon DVD-1930 
Denon DVD-1940 
Denon DVD-2930 
Integra DPS-6.9 
Marantz DV-6001 
Marantz SA-15S1 
Marantz SA-7001 
Onkyo DV-SP504 
Oppo DV-980H 
Parasound D3 
Philips DVP-9000S 
Pioneer DV-565A 
Pioneer DV-575A 
Pioneer DV-600AV 
Pioneer DV-610AV 
Pioneer DV-656A 
Pioneer DV-696AV 
Pioneer DV-757Ai 
Pioneer DV-989AVi 
Pioneer DV-LX50 
Sherwood Newcastle SD-871 
Sony DVP-NS900V 
Sony PlayStation3 
Yamaha CD-S2000 
Yamaha DVD-S1800 
Yamaha DVD-S2700 
Play after the firmware update: 
Samsung HD745/945/950 
Samsung HD841/941

Yep, or cheap OPPOs that output DSD over HDMI would work too.. there's several out there.

Ah! Lemme get this last piece of the puzzle sorted, and I'll be happy to relax with a refreshing drink and listen

 

A question for Black Elk and SamS: do you think there's any advantage in converting 44.1/16 sound files to DSD to author a DSD Disc or an SACD? I've made an DSD Disc out of my Japanese Gattaca soundtrack CD and on a friend's set up it sounds very fine to my ears, but I always suspected that much like vinyl, DSD has a "sonic signature" that is pleasant to the ear and that is what I'm hearing and liking from this CD to DSD Disc I created.
Anyway, I really whish and hope Oppo include DSD Disc Playing on a future firmware.

 

No reason you can't try it. Personally I think it would be a lot of work with little practical benefit.

 

SamS,

Thanks for the list of players. I have a few that work, so will experiment with some discs next month (my colleague is making me some).

Yes, the Oppos are a good option too, but it seems like they have dumped their really low-cost models, so compared to the under-$100 price of the base Sonys, they could be considered 'pricey'. Of course, for those wanting to use the on-board audio decoding (and possibly better video decoding too), the Oppos make more sense.


EvH,

Three things can happen:

1. it will sound better;
2. it will sound worse;
3. it will sound no different.

Everything depends on the quality of the conversion algorithm, and whether your playback DAC(s) work better with one format over another. The same holds for 44.1/16 conversions to 16/88.2, 24/88.2, 16/96, 24/96, etc., etc. PCM.

 

Thanks for your answer. I used Audiogate for convertion from 44.1/16 to DSD and making the DSD Disc. As I said, I tested the disc on a friend's set, not mine as the Oppo BDP-93 can't play DSD Discs.

 

Sam, pm sent re compilation

 

Thanks! Responded

A lot of progress has been made in the last 48 hours, not only personally, but via the online community as well. I think I'll have completed a start-to-finish solution in place later this evening, I was just missing one piece of the puzzle.

 

Guys, This is very exciting what you are doing here, I have got to try to get me the right PS3 to do this. IIRC, DSD Disc is strictly stereo.

 

I think there are already better sacd and vinyl rips on the net, with "better gear"

 

Maybe, but they are done on the analo domain, not digital clones like now.

 

Unlike Redbook Scarletbook uses DVD sectors which are validated with a checksum by the player (like a DVD). I can assure you there is no quality loss whatsoever.

 

Don't know if this needs its own thread, but this may be of interest to some of you:

http://bluecoastworld.com/korg-mr2-giveaway

 

In case anyone is interested in trying this on their <3.55 SACD-capable PS3, you must use OtherOSS++3.55, not GeoHot, etc. I wasted about 2 days trying to get other cfws to work

 

I can report, with absolute certainty, that SACD back-ups in true DSD do work per instructions given in the original post. ISOs burned to DVD-R via ImgBurn do play just fine via my OPPO, but not in the traditional SACD PS3

Right now, I am having a problem with 5.1 SACDs only backing up/playing the 2.0 L/R channels, but I'm confident that's some error on my part that I can overcome.

 

Great job SamS! Please keep us updated.

 

Cool stuff.

 

.

 

Yep, can 100% confirm now that stereo and 5.1 DSD sectors can be backed up, burned and played via OPPO Blu-ray players.

 

What format is the resulting DVD-R disc? I wouldn't think it would be DVD-V or DVD-A? Is it a cloned disc that your player sees as an SACD?

 

Wow

Great news indeed

The biggest downfall of SACD is no longer

amen

 

The burned disc format is SACD. It lacks the PSP encryption keys on pressed discs, so it doesn't play on every player. However, it does play on several current models.

I can also convert the stereo and 5.1 tracks from straight DSD (DSDIFF, technically) to 88.2/24, 176.4/24 PCM, etc.

 

Congratulations, Sam. This is a day I never thought I would see, the news really needs to be announced on other SACD-centric forums. You might want to post the news on here, http://www.ps3sacd.com/forums/. A number of sites I could think of would be very interested in hearing your developments on the matter.

 

That's the website of Forum member The 7th Taylor.

 

I really can't take much credit for this, other than actually doing it Forum member mr_wicked developed the code related in the first post.

The folks on the ps3sacd forums don't seem too interested in it, but there are a few other places that gave me some pointers.

True, it is a day I thought I'd never see as well!

Although this is still a relatively new procedure, it can be accomplished rather simply (now that I know what I'm doing), as long as you have a SACD-capable PS3 with sub-3.55 firmware. With a few tweaks to the firmware, you can be off and running in under an hour.