Bad News For Hi-Rez Music

I guess this is bad news for the future of our beloved hi-rez music:
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=16755573

 

Wow, they used the word stunning. This seems short sighted for Denon. How many forum members have bought an inexpensive player only to upgrade to a better model? Now they have even less to distinguish them from everyone else. People thought turntables would stop being made with the advent of the CD player. Twenty years later this hasn't happened. I'm waiting to see how this all shakes out.

 

It is a shame hi-rez hasn't completely replaced compact disc in the few short years it has been around.

CD won't last forever but it looks like it will be a while before hi-rez becomes the norm. Until that time I can understand why third party manufacturers won't be willing to pour money into DVD-A and SACD ad infinitum. They tried to spread the word - it didn't work.

It looks like we are in for a long drawn out process as hi-res slowly becomes more widespread.

Whether DVD-A or SACD will still be around when the CD has finally been usurped is anyone's guess.....

 

It's not good news, but wouldn't exactly call it a harbinger of doom or a death-knell. For one thing, the general public is ignoring hi-rez, because a)the companies making the software and hardware haven't properly promoted it nor educated the public about it, and b)without much of that product in the WallyWorld's of America, not going to go anywhere first.

It also takes the major labels and artists to make hi-rez formats work but, so far, not a lot of either has shown a lot of interest. Even open proponents of the format--like Neil Young--are not helping matters, since the fans who want his stuff in hi-rez also want it in 5.1 multi-channel, and he's only offered a few of those so far.

Don't think Jon will be shuttering QQ anytime soon , and I don't think this is a lot to worry about, yet. A tad disheartening, but only one outfit.

 

With DualDisc coming (many of which do not seem to include hi-rez tracks), it seems like the "format wars" concept takes on a new meaning now. Instead of SA-CD vs. DVD-Audio and all its permutations, now it will be hi-rez vs. lossy, I guess.

 

The hardware has been there from the beginning but the software support has been CRAPPY. I only got into hi-rez a couple of years ago and I am already wondering why?

I wish I would have just put more effort into vinyl. That is my hi-rez music of choice now.

 

What I cannot understand is how can hardware manufacturers call it quits when low-end players have barely been introduced during the last 12 months.

And, IF a significant amount of DualDiscs include MLP tracks (and to me, for the moment, it's a big IF), what future low-end players will be up to the task?

 

Who are Denon? I can't say I've heard of them. Do they market their product in England?

 

Oxenholme,

Denon does sell in the UK. See here: http://www.denon.co.uk/ ... and here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/026-7844645-8028402

It's one of the top consumer brands.

 

It seems to me that this will only affect a small portion of the potential hirez market.

Only audiophiles really buy into hirez so dropping budget and entry level gear would seem to not be a problem as long as the niche survives. Newcomers will still have Sony and Philips and Pioneer and other gear to buy on the cheap for entry into DVDA and SACD.

This does seem to not bode well that DualDisc will be more than a niche in terms of the hirez feature anyway.

 

If what I heard from Pioneer some time ago is true, believe me, this IS NOT good news.

It's probably time for anybody who's been hlding back from buying an entry-level universal player to do so before the only option will be high-end products.

 

The Norm

 

not so

 

Cheap players, especially cheap universal players, sound really bad. There is absolutely no point in trying to sell hi-rez music formats that are meant to sound better than CD via such poor hardware.

5.1 is of course an entirely different matter and the lack of cheap, bad sounding MCH hardware could adversely effect the take up of gimmicky surrond sound. Shame.

 

On the other hand, Maranzt has declared that all of their CD players in future will also include SACD playback. (Stereo only - the multi-channel models are usually universal players).

 

Mick,

If you are right then I am afraid the future will be DualDisc.

Many people just don't have the money, or know hi-rez enough, to put money into costly players which have (still) not enough titles - especially of new artists - to play on them. Yet, they could be willing to try the new formats if their new cheap universal plays them. Once in, and having bought some titles and known that they do sound better than CDs (even in those limited players), their second one could be a better one.

Without a doubt, if companies would put out better players at that price range the difference between hi-rez and CDs would be that much more apparent, but while the market does not move it makes no sense to offer better hardware.

Having more people buy hi-rez, be it for surround or whatever, is good for everybody: it maintains the format alive, lowers prices and increases availability both in titles and in quantity.

BTW, if you have a spare hi-end (SACD and/or DVD-A) player lying at home gathering dust, you could send it to me. I'm dying to hear how hi-rez sounds on one of those! ;-)

 

What do the software guys expect. In this case, being a HiRez supporter, I feel for DENON.

I mean, these companies spend the money on the engineering and design of equipment, pay the licensing and logo fees, market the product and for what???

This past year has had the smallest amount of HIGH PROFILE DVD-A and SACD releases since the formats arrived.

For those who want to argue this point (and you know who you are), please feel free to list the titles in this thread. (It won't take long)

This decision falls flatly on the face on SONY and WB. They should have got down with the Harry Fox folks, made the deal, and got the stuff out. If it cost $1 more, WHO CARES? Get it out.

We have been waiting for "Running on Empty" now for almost 3 years. Countless titles have appeared and disappeared from release lists in the past year.

If it were not for UMG, the only HiRez HiProfile titles we would have would fit in a small CD Wallet.

Good Grief!

 

Marantz

<<<<<<I would think Marantz would do better by enabling more CD players to play back Multichannel.

 

You guys forget that unlike the typical SH Forum user, the average audio/video hardware buyer considers high fidelity as not so relevant, because he is more interested in watching DVDs (with spectacular - not realistic - surround sound) than listening to music. For him, music is something that is mainly consumed in the car, outdoors or during activities which don't permit watching video. That explains the success of MP3 players.

Most music listeners don't hear a difference between CD and high rez sound. Even many hifi freaks don't consider SACD to sound spectacularly better than CD.

So DualDisc without high-rez sound is a natural market development, enabling the consumer to get a video-DVD with CD-compatibility, for the same price as a single CD or DVD. We'll have to see if the next DualDiscs will contain significant video material, and not just a 30 minute filler.

That being said, I see SACD having some potential on the more sound quality conscious classical market, as well as in an audiophile niche. But it will take a significant fraction of classical listeners and audiophiles to adopt SACD, and that is not yet the case. Many classical collectors started with LPs, and then replaced many of them with CDs, mainly for convenience and durability reasons. Very few of them are ready to replace their CD collection with SACDs (if those were available).

The basic problem is that CD is too good as far as sound quality is concerned. The only thing missing is surround sound and video, and that is what DualDiscs provide.

The only possibility for SACD replacing CD would be if the hi-rez discs were sold at the same price as CDs, which is currently not the case for mid price titles at least. A Naxos SACD costs 3 times the price of the corresponding CD. Getting the advantage of SACD for free could have convinced the public to opt for hi-rez, even if they don't really benefit a lot from it.

 

Good point, Oblio.

 

OK I will disagree,
2004 SACD releases:
Ryan Adams
Cannonball Adderley
Allman Brothers
Animals
Big Star
Bon Jovi
Carpenters
Sheryl Crow
Deep Purple
Nick Drake
Godsmack
Vince Guaraldi
Kinks
Elton John
Herman's Hermits
Isaac Hayes
Toby Keith
Diana Krall
John Mayer
Modern Jazz Quartet
Oscar Peterson
Searchers
Sonny Rollins
The Who
Leann Womack
Too many good classical titles to list.
Nine Inch Nails on the way.

Old and new from all different genres. 2004 has been as good as any. I'm still not convinced that it is getting worse but keep trying to convince me, I'm listening.

 

I am convinced the average person out there does not hear the difference between CD, SACD and Vinyl. They have no interest in hi-rez, it is for audiophiles only. Vinyl is old-fashion, why would anyone have vinyl. Multi-channel is for video and their DVD players and A/V receivers take care of that. The main place where most people listen to CD's today is in their car or on their PC. Who needs hi-rez!

 

Let me just point out that hardware companies make their decisions about what products they are going to launch on a given year quite ahead of time. There was a meeting in the Far East early this year to decide what was going to be launched in 2006. So this might look like an out-of-the-blue decision from Denon, but I seriously doubt it has been made recently.

 

The average person out there has not heard hi-rez music, period. A significant number also has not heard music in surround except for as it relates to movies be it at their nearest multiplex or sometimes, at their or someone else's home.

 

This is bad news for high-res. If companies like Pioneer and Panasonic drop them next, we've got a big problem.