Basic Surround Sound Question

So for a few years I've enjoyed a very satisfying set up using a Parasound A51 amp, an Oppo 105D player and Magnepan 3.7 speakers. The Oppo has a white noise generator that allows you to balance the rears and the fronts at essentially equal volume. My reference DVD has been The McCartney Years which sounds spectacular in surround - very exciting, involving and detailed. But the key word here is "balanced." When a guitar or voice appears in the rear channel - in the rear-center or on one side - it's not too loud or soft but seamlessly fits into the broad sonic picture. A number of other DVDs, Blu-ray's and surround discs also play in similar fashion. The Beatles Anthology is another one. Just glorious. The only adjustment I need to make is in the overall volume, not the balance between the fronts and the rears. Very often, however, a movie or disc will have far too much volume in the back. Even modest, bio films, for instance where sound effects are not the star. Loved the film, Marshall which I saw last night but the music in the back drowned out the dialogue. Now, admittedly, the solution is very simple; turn down the rear volume about 5 steps and it was perfect. So my question is: does a surround sound system come with it a necessity to adjust the back balance depending on the material/disc? Like the steering wheel on a car as you drive, are you constantly making fine adjustments all the time, as I do? If you've set it up properly, and maybe I haven't, is it a set and forget thing or because every disc has been mastered differently, do you always have your hand on the remote to turn the rears either up or down? I never seem to have found the "perfect" setting - similar to the volume in stereo where some discs are mastered much louder than others. Is surround sound mastering and front-to-rear balance just all over the place?

 

Assuming your rear speakers are closer to your couch, sounds like you should just turn down the rears and live with it. Took me awhile to adjust my Sub, as it was ok with music, but always louder with movies. Just the nature of the beast I guess.

Good luck, I know that doesn't really help with your dilemma.

 

If some mixes sound good, but others are too loud in the surrounds, then it's the mixes, I think. It happens often.

Another idea: Does your amp have a setting to convert 2-channel mixes into surround? If so, it could be putting too much in the surrounds. Maybe you were watching a stereo version of Marshall, not 5.1?

 

Thanks for the response. The signal for the surrounds goes through a preamp so I can enjoy stereo music in Dolby Pro Logic II. Those levels are fine with all sources played containing enough level in the back to envelope but not overwhelm. In that case, the fronts are still the star but the backs widen the soundstage - doing what they're supposed to do. For surround, you bypass any processing and go straight through. Those levels have been set equally using white noise from the Oppo player. Marshall was by no means the only movie that had too much level in the back. But others are terrific with my current settings. I just can't seem to find any consistency. I set it according to the instructions and still levels are very individual, depending on the source. Some sources are as you'd want. Others are wacky. Easily fixable with a finger on the remote to adjust the global volume of the surrounds up or down but there's no one size fits all solution, thus far. If levels are set equal between fronts and surrounds by the listener, then why do some discreet sounds play waaaaay too loud in the rears and other sources sound perfectly balanced? I would assume the audio mixers are adjusting their monitors to equal volumes just as I have.

 

I wish there were a device - or maybe an app? - that one could use to further tune volume anomalies for short, specific circumstances above and beyond what a normal, "listen-straight-through" event might be. Let's call it a,"Level Monkey"...maybe a phone-sized remote held sideways, with a big center "pot", three smaller ones on either side, and a few buttons in a row below...

A quick, simple "correct" for individual oddities between discs (such as your "Marshall" overbalance, or the lackluster rears in Giles' Sgt. Peppers' mix, or the Japanese Lotus quad), or single-channel "pop-in" buttons like you see on studio consoles that drops everything out to see of you're really getting nothing in that right rear but the cymbal crash; macros to lighten the sides in a 7.1 setup so you can concentrate on the rear surrounds, or to drop everything down below for a second to hear the effect from the ATMOS drivers above you. Maybe even a synthesis circuit that channels "real" information from right-and-left to the center channel, to give your quad mixes more than just a "phantom center"...just to see how that sounds.

And of course, a quick drop-down of everything to brag to your friends "okay, check out this around-the-room effect coming up....".

I can see this unit as being an easier fix-and-tweak separate from your usual remote, which you probably used very carefully to calibrate and precisely set everything once-and-done - which you wouldn't want to screw up, just to have a quick listen to something precise that only comes up on occasion. When you're done with that listening test/one-off/dialog-fix/whatever, you turn it off, and the settings revert instantly to however you originally set your system for overall.

This way, you could have your cake and eat it too...without even messing up the frosting on your cake!

 

I realize I may be guilty of using 10 words when 3 would do. Plus, I'm dealing with a serious nerd factor in my quest for close-to-perfect sound. However, that being said, I'm not referring to any surround mix like Sgt. Pepper that was purposely mixed very lightly for the rears. I'm referring to mixes that contain discreet rear information but whose balance is obviously out of wack. I never turned up the rears for Sgt. Pepper because I could easily discern that it wasn't intended to be heard that way. Why, beats the devil out me but that's been covered ad nauseam. But what's up with all these movies whose rear channels are mixed so loud as to make the fronts irrelevant? How did they have their studios set up? Is there no consumer surround standard of some kind? I don't experience this when I physically go to the movies.

 

I dont do a lot of movies but mainly music and yes im almost always doing a lil of adjusting my db levels up or down slightly based on the source material

Ive got 4 floorstanders but their not same
I pair polk rti a7s for front
1 pair polk moniter 60s rears/sides
5.1 system

I usually have my rears/sides set 2 db higher than fronts but source material does vary so...yep adjust up or down

I listen in 2 channel stereo w same setup atm

 

Do you use a center speaker?

 

Ah, that's useful. So like me - and I take it you've done some sort of SPL or white noise test balance - you're still having to correct surround mixes. Why would that be, though? I mean, you set up your stereo and bingo, the stereo split is correct. Unless there's a technical problem, the right isn't louder than the left on different recordings. Our remotes don't turn up and down the right or left individually. So once you've set up your surround, why do you think different recordings need individual adjustment? It's one thing to adjust for taste. It's another to account for a mistake.

 

Well my fronts r larger n play slightly louder than my sides for one...hence the 2 db setting difference...n most of the time that works great....however mixes n sound levels ive found can vary greatly

For ex Chicago Quadio the sides/rears overpower the fronts/ vocals....on that i reduce the rears

On Fleetwood Mac say u will dvda theirs almost lil volume in rears...its mixed way too low....on that one i raise the rears aprx 5-6 db

 

I see. So you have to make up some level differences due to variations in your equipment. That makes total sense. In my case, I've got a single multi-channel amp and the same speakers throughout and I'm STILL making adjustments similar to you. And 5 or 6 db is a lot of difference. So I always wonder as I listen in surround, is this at all close to what the engineer intended? How are we to know? When it's balanced, it's sure great sounding but when all is said and done, is surround just a guessing game?

 

Well the Fleetwood mac say u will dvda its the mix, not a damn thing i can do about that...if i had all exact same speakers it would help...but im too poor...so it is what it is

But i do love Quad n music in surround im very late to the surround party but its great i love it

Stay Surrounded

Ps the Doobie Brothers Quadio is fantastic outstanding a Ten buy it!