Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by breakingglass, Sep 14, 2018.
Very good question.
I wanna know if In the Flat Field and Mask are different from the 2013 reissues.
I agree. I'll bet the vinyl is cut from the same limited digital mastering.
The Bela file is 48/24. Makes me wonder if that's the rate they mastered it or if that's just the highest rate they want to release it at.
Just had a good listen to the track. Doesn't sound bad but the old CD single sounds clearly better. Really a frustrating shame to have mastering trends that are so regressive.
Just downloaded Bela 'The Hunger' mix. It's available on various download sites. I went with Onkyo Music because it had it in hi-res. Cool mix. Doesn't have the echo vocal. Sounds like maybe a different vocal track with music from the original version, but I haven't done a thorough listen yet. It does just cutoff at 6:50, though. This one somehow got by me. Good mastering.
Does anyone know anything about this "mix"? The Hunger film seems to have the single version playing and the promo single has time listed at only three and a half minutes.
Now I'm confused. Here's what was said, by someone who worked on he Omnibus sets, about the live tape used for Mask:
"Tagged on the end of the multi mix however was a real find…a brand new studio vocal of Bela Lugosi’s Dead – we suspected this was recorded with the intention of mixing it over the live backing track for use on The Hunger movie – but for one reason or another was never completed as the band opted to use the live version proper instead. Such a find could not be left alone and Mark Wallis did what Bauhaus never did – mixed it with the live backing track, time sequenced to perfection - this was the catalyst for …And Remains. The idea of which was to compile the best of the rest as a giveaway CD as a thank you for purchasing both packages direct from Beggars Archive."
But now there is this "Hunger Mix" version being sold on download sites and it is very different from the "Tomb Raider Mix" which is what is on the 'And Remains' CD.
Yeah the late 80s Bela CD single is awesome, released when the master tape was only 9 or 10 years old and a Nimbus disc IIRC, who had a high reputation in those days.
The original Bela sounds great on the still in print Crackle CD though, mastered by the now sadly deceased John Dent, so at least it's available in good sound, cheaply, for people who don't care about having its B side or vinyl.
I was just also comparing the bela from crackle and didn't care for it myself. I'm noticing a shaving to the bass compared to the cd single and new download. Those have a nice fat bass which sounds like it goes deeper. Makes me wonder if the one on crackle was cut from a tape for vinyl cutting. Otherwise it sounds quite clean but the bass shaving bothers me.
I guess they had to lower it a bit then, so that Bela's bass didn't stand out too much on the Crackle comp next to the other songs?
The new Bela release is a good thing, but can't help wishing a bit, that it was a box set with original artwork not the altered one, with 2x12", the first a replica of the original 1979 white vinyl, the 2nd 12" featuring the session. I'm sure they could have shifted those even though the price would have been higher?
Yeah, that could be it.
I wish they would've included this session as well: Harry, Small Talk Stinks, Double Dare (The Gold Dust session). Also, the session where they re-recorded "The Boys" for the Bela b-side. Or maybe only that song was recorded at that session. The Gold Dust session was mentioned among the material not used for the Omnibus sets. They said that one couldn't be used because it was recorded out of contract, so I assume Bauhaus could've released it themselves like the Bela session.
And what session was the "Dark Entries" demo except on the Bela 12" recorded at? I wonder if they still have that. A real shame the Omnibus sets didn't continue. Sky, Burning and a Bela-era set could've all been great. Instead, they switched to loud mastering and non-deluxe releases.
Ok, so the Tomb Raider mix has the same vocal as Press the Eject, not a specially recorded studio vocal. The music sounds like it maybe features elements from studio and live versions.
The Hunger Mix does have what sounds like a specially recorded studio vocal and what sounds like the adjusted music from the This Is For When… performance. So this is the one which sounds like is being described in the above quote I posted. A new mix using a special studio vocal found at the end of the This Is For When tape and the music from the live version. So then what was the Tomb Raider mix done for and why was it used on the And Remains CD if the Hunger Mix was the inspiration for that CD?
Here's the Gold Dust Session from the great bauhausgigguide.info site which started off as a gig guide but has sessions and more too. I guess the tape exists from what you say? Must have been a pre Flat Field test session or something although too early for that exactly, I mean maybe before Bela came together an EP or LP was planned with early versions of Double Dare and more?
Bauhaus - 1979-11-03 - 1979-11-04 - Gold Dust session - Gold Dust Studio, Sidcup, Kent, United Kingdom
Yeah, they have the tape. Here's a long post one of the guys who worked on the Omnibus sets made on myspace at the time. At the end, he lists everything they have but left off. I understand not including the Bela-era stuff, but the rest amounted to a handful of tracks. I don't get the idea that repetition is a problem on a release like these. Heck, And Remains had plenty of space for them. I also don't like the twist of the knife he gave in mentioning that Harry sounds great in 24-bit but they didn't include it. I understand why it wasn't included but instead of the fine mastering it would've had then, it appears the release it is about to get on the Bela Sessions will be loudly mastered and shaved down (if we assume the Bela sample track is indicative of what we'll get with the final release). It really bothers me that Bauhaus had well done mastering and then switched gears into the loudness crap.
The guy who made the below post is also the one credited with the concept for the Bela session re-issue. Shame he didn't conceptualize including the Gold Dust session.
Reissues coming: BAUHAUS (Deluxe Editions!), PIXIES and more from Beggars Banquet
Thanks for the link, I don’t recall ever reading that although am familiar with the guy Andrew Brooksbank for many years. Maybe the session is rubbish and the band vetoed it after getting the tapes.
Hello, am sitting here listening to these. Hmm, mixed opinions here, but the good outweighs the bad. All IMO of course..
IN THE FLAT FIELD:
| Far better than any CD version I've ever heard.
| Probably as good sounding as a UK original to most people, which is along with The Sky's Gone Out the best sounding original Bauhaus LP. Lovely clear walking bassline on Dive, which to me is always trebly on CD. Cool here.
| Brilliant quality artwork: cover and inner identical to an original except the barcode on the back. The jewel case CDs over the years turned the cover picture white and black. It's meant to be almost sepia, as it is here.
The Not So Good:
| "Bronze" colored vinyl which to me is just pointless gimickiness, spoils the black and greyness of the album.
| Redesigned labels nothing like originals.
| No poly liner.
| Black blob stuck on the vinyl on Double Dare caused skipping and crunching. Got some of it off but not all of it yet.
| Quite a few other pops, crunches and crackles. Not outrageous, but am not a fan of whoever manufactured these.
| Sounds unlike an original, but better, clearer, bassier. Also not really like the 2009 CD which to some of us was a revelation, as it lost all the reverby haze on old LPs / CDs of Mask. I think I still prefer that 2009 CD, but this LP sounds good, clear, beefier and better than the original. Somewhere in between an original LP and the 2009 CD in terms of mastering. Hard to appraise really due to the curveball of the 2009 CD totally making the original sound of the album redundant for me.
| Accurate, high quality artwork visuals again, just like an original except the barcode.
The Not So Good:
| Again, labels not unpleasant but nothing like originals, a cheap non poly inner, gimmicky colored vinyl although yellow for Mask is better than bronze for Field.
| Audible visible scuff on Dancing, also occasional pops and crunches, nothing disastrous but not great for straight out of the shrink.
So, shame about the pressing quality at least on mine, but am looking forward to the next lot, especially my favourite, Burning, as the original was the only non UK pressed original Bauhaus LP and didn't sound as good as the others.
(Note for Brits - shop around, they can be had for £15 - £17 in store in London, cheaper than amazon).
Do we know who cut these? Were they pressed at GZ?
What do they put in the matrix, any identifier I can look for for you?
I just relistened to the 2009 Mask CD and I now think this new vinyl uses the same superior, non hazy master. The HD transfer and new vinyl mastering make it slightly darker, bassier than the 2009 CD. But it's definitely not the hazy reverb master the original LP had.
I'm not usually interested in comparison of CD vs vinyl but for the reasons in my earlier posts here and in other threads Mask warrants it I think, and others in other threads also noticed what I did about the "new" sound of the Mask 2009 CD.
So I think on 2nd listen this new Mask vinyl is gonna be joint favourite for me with its 2009 CD sister/brother.
Regardless of any of that, and whether I'm right or wrong about the Mask master, these are two very good sounding LPs despite the slightly rough manufacturing of my copies. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed, but if you want to save money and have a Field original UK, I'd say just get Mask as it's IMO so much better than a 1981 UK.
I have no idea how the other Field and Mask vinyl reissues from recent years compare to these by the way, as I don't have them.
Yeah, I'd love to know if these are any different from the versions that have been available for the past few years. I have the Mask LP pressing that was put out before this new one, and I swear it utilized the Omnibus mastering. So, if this new one also sounds like the Omnibus, I wonder if it's the same.
I have a feeling I bought that Mask but returned it quickly after deciding it didn’t sound better than the CD. If I’m right, maybe this new one is a higher res, differently mastered transfer of the same analogue master. That would explain why I had no interest in the one you have, but like this new one. I’m only guessing though, it could be the same, I had that Mask of yours so briefly.
I've been wondering why bronze for the vinyl - but that's to tie into the almost sepia of the photo. Now it makes sense.
Except it's stupid.
Interesting. Yeah, I suppose maybe this new one could be higher res. That would, I guess, justify the price hike from the ones that have been readily available.
Funny, I had a different reaction to the recent but not-new Mask LP: I found that it sounded similar enough to the Omnibus CD - and therefore still better than the original LP or CD - that I decided to keep it. Same with In the Flat Field.
That's too bad about the surface noise, though. But my recent Mask and Flat Field LPs also have a bit more surface noise than is ideal, i.e., it's not egregious, but it's pushing it at times. Certainly not super quiet pressings. I wonder if both these and the new ones were pressed at the same plant?
What's the thought on the Vinyl180 reissue of Mask that preceded the last BB version?
I found the thread.
It never had the proper sepia, almost like your avatar. Was always grey and black, bits of white, but it has the sort of sepia wash quality too it, but grey more than brown. Whereas the jewel case ones had bright white on the photo scene where it should have been a more washy, atmospheric tone. If they had to do colored vinyl, it should have been grey IMO.
I think I'm being confusing and waffling, sorry.
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