DCC Archive Beach Boys question for Steve

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Mal, Oct 30, 2001.

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  1. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Manchester, England
    Steve,

    I have heard that the Razor & Tie Beach Boys Collection is made from masters that were originally used for the production of the DCC Gold CD releases. Is this an accurate picture - or did you master these recordings seperately, specifically for the Razor & Tie issue?

    What makes me curious is the inclusion of some post-Capitol tracks on the Razor & Tie CDs that were not released on DCC.

    Thanks

    (by the way - I took your advice and snapped up more DCC Ray Charles CDs. Brother Ray never sounded sooo good :cool: )
     
    Mal, Oct 30, 2001
    #1
  2. JohnnyK

    JohnnyK Senior Member

    Location:
    Inverness, Illinois (suburb of Chicago)
    Malc,

    I have the Razor and Tie CD, but I do not have the DCC CD of the Beach boys. It will be interesting to see what Steve has to saw about the two CD's.

    For some reason, the later songs do not have the openess and sweetness of the early songs. They sound more compressed than the early songs. It seems that the Beach Boys changed recording equipment around the time of Good Vibrations. Maybe they went from tubes to solid state.

    The early songs are absolutly breathtaking. In My Room; Surfer Girl; Fun, Fun, Fun; Don't Worry Baby and Warmth of the Sun are phenominal. Each one of the Beach Boy's voices is distinct during their four part harmony. In addition, the soundstage is HUGE in width and depth. I have a large number of Steve's gold CD's. In my opinion, the songs listed above are Steve's best work.

    :) :D :)
     
    JohnnyK, Oct 30, 2001
    #2
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Chairman of the Bored

    Can somebody post the tracklisting and stereo/mono content for this set? Thanks. :cool:
     
    Andrew, Oct 30, 2001
    #3
  4. JohnnyK

    JohnnyK Senior Member

    Location:
    Inverness, Illinois (suburb of Chicago)
    JohnnyK, Oct 30, 2001
    #4
  5. btomarra

    btomarra Classic Rock Audiophile

    Location:
    Little Rock, AR
    btomarra, Oct 30, 2001
    #5
  6. JohnnyK

    JohnnyK Senior Member

    Location:
    Inverness, Illinois (suburb of Chicago)
    Brian,

    Collector's Choice Music has the correct CD, plus it is $9.00 cheaper.
     
    JohnnyK, Oct 30, 2001
    #6
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Ah, The Beach Boys. Love those records.

    THE Beach Boys expert lurks around here, and his name is Brad Elliot. He should be writing this, but I'll take a stab at it.

    The stereo Beach Boys cuts with the fantastic fidelity were mixed (in a big hurry) by Chuck Britz at Western Studio C after the mono's were done. Chuck once told me he mixed the entire Fun Fun Fun album in under an hour. This is a good thing, AND a bad thing. A good thing, in that very little eq and compression was used, a bad thing in that the mixes are very sloppy, leaving in coughs, talking and the like (which some people love, and really crappy fade outs.

    What I mean is this---- Take the song "Fun Fun Fun" for example. The stereo mix is open and exciting, fidelity wise. He did the mix in about four minutes! Of course, the backing track is too low, but people don't seem to mind. The real problem with the stereo version, is that the fade is way too fast. It's like, as soon as he can, he fades the thing down so he can go grab a smoke or something, while the mono version goes on and on. The stereo listeners are getting gyped. Britz did this with most of the stereo Beach Boys mixes he did. The other weird thing, is that he seemed to do this odd two handed fade on three knobs. In other words, instead of using a master fader to fade all three channels out, he seems to have faded each of the three tracks down at seperate times! Either the music goes first or the vocals. It's charming, I guess: He "fades down the two music channels with two hands, and then reaches for the vocal track and fades that down. Or, the other way around. Weird, eh? Give a listen. On "Wendy" the vocal track goes first, leaving the vocal echo hanging there before the music is faded. In "Fun Fun Fun", he fades the music completely out, leaving the vocals just hanging there. Wacky!

    Now, the MONO SINGLE mix of "Fun Fun Fun" that was done at Capitol by John Kraus in my opinion is the best mix of the three (mono LP version, stereo LP and 45). However, most folks like the stereo, even though it dies at the end. Ah well...

    After Brian Wilson became more involved with the production aspect, the stereo mix went bye bye. By mid 1964, I guess, Brian was involved with the mixing as well, so when the mono mix was "nailed", that was it. No stereo mix, no more wide soundstage, and things got murkier and murkier with the number of dub downs and things. That's life, and that is history. Be happy the mono tracks are in mono and not fake stereo.

    As to the Razor & Tie mastering, I used the same tapes I used to do the three DCC discs. The levels might be hotter, but tone wise, they should match pretty well.

    Enjoy!

    [ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Steve Hoffman ]
     
    Steve Hoffman, Oct 30, 2001
    #7
    thrivingonariff, eno, saborlord123 and 3 others like this.
  8. Angel

    Angel New Member

    Location:
    Hollywood, Ca.
    Wow! Great post, Steve. I hung on every word.

    The Razor & Tie disc you did really sounds better than any Capitol version out there. Thanks for your time and effort.

    The fade out on "Fun, Fun, Fun" really is ****ty, isn't it? I guess the engineer did want to get the heck out of there and grab a smoke or something. He probably hated all that kind of music anyway. Didn't all of the famous rock & roll engineers dislike the stuff, at the time? Read that somewhere. Now they love it, because it has made them legends... Ironic, ain't it? :)
     
    Angel, Oct 30, 2001
    #8
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Glad you liked my little post, Carole!

    For a laugh, listen to the fade out on "Don't Back Down" in stereo. Engineer Chuck Britz is in such a hurry to get out of that song, he starts fading out during the verse, not even waiting for the "ride out chorus" like he did on the mono version. It would be funny if it wasn't sad. Too bad Brian Wilson didn't stick around for the stereo versions. He might have said "Not so fast, Chuck, there is still more song left!"
    ;)
     
    Steve Hoffman, Oct 30, 2001
    #9
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Chairman of the Bored

    Just placed the order for this at CCM, good deal at only $17.88 plus p & h. And to think I was about to get the Capitol "best-ofs" instead! [​IMG]
     
    Andrew, Oct 30, 2001
    #10
  11. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    Man, ya gotta hear the two Beach Boys tracks (Surfin' Safari, Surfer Girl) from DCC - Beach Classics. They are really, really good with an awesome unique sound. If you're into the Beach Boys, then you need this one. No really, trust me.

    Steve, is there anymore Beach Boys stuff like that floating around? You da man!
     
    pigmode, Oct 30, 2001
    #11
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    PM, those are the original demo versions as recorded before the band signed with Capitol. From the "Bruce Morgan Sessions" era.

    If you like, you should get the DCC CD The Beach Boys "Lost And Found" for more goodies, mastered from the actual Bruce Morgan "closet" tapes.... An amazing collection of pre-Capitol stuff (if I do say so myself) :D
     
    Steve Hoffman, Oct 31, 2001
    #12
  13. Unknown

    Unknown Guest

    I have a copy of this I would be willing to sell or trade. Not my cup of tea. Interested parties can e-mail me.
     
    Unknown, Oct 31, 2001
    #13
  14. FabFourFan

    FabFourFan Senior Member

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    I don't know your email, but I am interested. Probably simplest just to buy, if it's still available. Please email
    [email protected] as appropriate. Thanks!
     
    FabFourFan, Oct 31, 2001
    #14
  15. Unknown

    Unknown Guest

    Oops...didn't realize I was blocking my e-mail address. Anyway, I think LuckyPack wants it. That was fast.
     
    Unknown, Oct 31, 2001
    #15
  16. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Well, when you monitor the board 24x7, you catch things like this quickly...
     
    lukpac, Oct 31, 2001
    #16
  17. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    There's a bunch of copies of Lost and Found (1961-62) to be had really cheap on half.com. Highly recommended. Since the Beach Boys have recently taken to suppressing any new release of this material with lawsuits, it might be a good idea to snap up one of these while they're available.
     
    czeskleba, Oct 31, 2001
    #17
  18. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL

    Thank's Steve. Thanks to Jason's heads-up, I was able to order that one.

    The Beach Classics tracks: I can understand how this might not be everyones cup of tea, but here's my take. These recordings are clear and simple. At first I just clicked over the tracks but their simplicity, I think, is what makes them so attractive. Sure, I still adore DCC - Endless Summer, but feel lucky in discovering Beach Classics.
     
    pigmode, Oct 31, 2001
    #18
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Just wait until you hear those same two tracks on The Beach Boys "Lost And Found" DCC CD. About 4 generations of tape earlier, sound wise. You'll really like 'em.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Oct 31, 2001
    #19
  20. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Manchester, England
    Steve,

    thanks for the interesing comments above. For me, nothing beats the mono mixes of the tracks featuring the wreckin' crew (thankfully no stereo mixes were made for much of BW's mid 60s work - otherwise I'm sure Capitol would have forced them on us!).

    However, my question about the inclusion of the post-Capitol tracks on the Razor & Tie Collection (ie the tracks that are not included on any of the DCC releases) is still to be cleared up :confused: . Did you have access to the original masters for these tracks?

    M


    (Four Seasons - you'd better watch out ;) )

    [ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: Malc S ]
     
    Mal, Nov 1, 2001
    #20
  21. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Hey Jason...I went on Half.com and there was one copy left at 7.00. I snatched it up, and now there is only ONE copy left at all...for 20.00!!

    thanks for the tip...youre right, this Cd will be hard to get soon.

    Mikey
     
    RetroSmith, Nov 1, 2001
    #21
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Malc,

    Post Capitol tracks? You mean like "Kokamo", "Disney Girls", etc.?

    Well, we got the latter from Elektra, the the former from the B.Boys folks.... Yes, there is such a thing as TOO much overdubbing! ;)
     
    Steve Hoffman, Nov 1, 2001
    #22
  23. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Manchester, England
    Thanks Steve!

    Now that I've had a closer look I can see that on top of the 4 post-Capitol tracks that aren't available on DCC, there are also 5 Capitol tracks on the Razor and 'Tie thing' ;) that aren't available on DCC either!!

    Wow! I must have a copy - even Kokomo can't stop me now :D .

    For those interested, the tracks on the Razor and Tie CDs that are not on the DCC discs are:

    Little Saint Nick
    Heroes and Villains
    Wild Honey
    Friends
    Do It Again
    Disney Girls
    Sail On Sailor
    Rock & Roll Music
    Kokomo :D


    Of course, there are a load (19 in total) of tracks available on the 3 DCC CDs that aren't on the Razor & Tie CDs so you still have to buy everything if you are as hooked on the BBs as I am :rolleyes:.

    Surf's Up,

    M

    [ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: Malc S ]
     
    Mal, Nov 1, 2001
    #23
  24. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Damn! When I posted that the other day, there was like 12 copies on there, priced from $4 to $10. I wonder if the sudden sales surge resulted entirely from this group?
     
    czeskleba, Nov 1, 2001
    #24
  25. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    No doubt. I went there right away and there were only about 7 or 8 left. That's buying power. Looks like we might have the leverage to exact our desires on a certain record label (hint).

    ;) :rolleyes: :cool:
     
    pigmode, Nov 1, 2001
    #25
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