Beatles Abbey Road BBC2 TV special 1969

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ajsmith, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    I'm struggling to match the above to the above screen shot to the barbershop image but it is not very clear. It does seem to be a different image or a different part of an animation. The signed image seems to have quite pointy footwear whereas if I am viewing the above correct there seems to be two heavy booted legs walking in the opposite direction to the barbershop image with what appears to be quite a small body/head above.
     
  2. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Glasgow
    My assumption would be that the b/w Dig Media image shows 'Maxwell' doing his thing with his hammer in a seperate scene from The barbershop Beatles.
     
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  3. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    Yes, I think you are probably correct. I can see the hammer but am struggling to make out if the round, white area is a head or the body! It remains an intriguing mystery - the exact nature of the animation.
     
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  4. VincentR

    VincentR Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sydney
    This is interesting as 15 years ago I awoke to find to my shock Pauls head had fallen off and was laying at the bottom of the frame. I was forced to carefully remove the back in front of a Justice of the Peace video taped and glue Pauls head back on and while doing this on the back cardboard was what I remember to be ''VT with some type of number possibly 0049 or 56 '' I never knew what this meant. I was then disturbed by noticing the order of passing away and the cartoon order and felt horrified and sad may Paul live to be over 100 and Ringo Holy Jesus Amen just shook me up a bit
     
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  5. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    Spooky! So when you too it apart did it still have whatever mechanism that nodded the heads in place? I must admit I never gave it a thought that you would have left it framed all these years. I guess you perhaps would though!

    Was it painted/ drawn directly onto card? I think like others I had originally assumed it was painted onto acetate and that the green background was separate. It is a very interesting item that you have.
     
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  6. VincentR

    VincentR Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sydney
    It's drawn and coloured in with texta and pen on a piece of card board. I am at the stage where the time has come for it to be bequived to a museum as I want to leave it before I die to the world and not hidden in someones house, I want to live the rest of my life feeling normal and just a bum. It's a piece of history that people all over the world should be able to see for maybe hundreds of years or whatever time is appointed. Am tired of trying to sell it and God is telling me to give it to a museum. Am thinking of contacting the major museum in Australia and just want them if they want it to have a small plaque saying donated to us from Vincent Ruello. I've owned it for 23 years and it helped to save my life at a time when I was so desperate. As a musician my inspiration was always Paul he taught me everything and over the years I have enjoyed entertaining people. It is difficult owning this, if I can't find a museum to take it off my hands for free I will never be free, health and peace and leaving something special for the whole world to see is what now is required. Rowan Ayers found that out, he knew what it was and represented but decided to get rid of it for a pittance to just have enough to go to Queensland and write a short book called I Jesus then help create a documentary about the Essenes with Barbara Theiring. I will always be grateful for being the custodian of their last hoorah but will take more joy in seeing a major museum displaying it to the world
     
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  7. VincentR

    VincentR Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sydney
    Just sent this email to the Australian Museum of Contemporary Art
    Hello, my name is Vincent Ruello from Sydney. My wife and I would like to bequiver a most rare and priceless signed artwork to the Australian museum of contemporary art. It would be a major draw card for your museum as it is the Last signed work of art by The Beatles a gift they presented to Rowan Ayers the Producer of the show called Late Night Line Up which launched their last album Abbey Road in late 1969. It was presented to Rowan in February 1970. It is large framed in a gold vintage style wood with glass professionaly housed 83cm x 73cm. The one of a kind artwork originated from Apple Studios believed to have been drawn by John Lennon who signed it '' a peace from John Lennon '' also signed by the other band members and featured in the film clip for Maxwell's Silver Hammer and is the only piece of art and memorabilia in existence from the launch of Abbey Road. The launch was seen by millions world wide in 1969 and the Barbershop Quartet artwork with cut out wobbly heads has been documented as authentic by the Beatles official biographer Hunter Davies and renown USA Beatles historian Bruce Spizer in their books now an Iconic Caricature. Would like it to go in our Australian museum before it ends up in another countries museum, all we ask is that you place a small plaque underneath saying '' Kindly Donated by Vincent and Melaia Ruello '' and it must never be sold. The artwork measures 26cm x 16cm. The Beatles contacted me in late 1997 wanting to buy it back but I never sold it to them. Please get back sincerely Vincent Ruello
     
  8. b.smith

    b.smith Forum Resident

    Hi Vincent, your story really touched me.
    I hope the museum gets back to you positively - please keep us informed.

    Brendan
     
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  9. paulisdead

    paulisdead fast and bulbous



    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I can see a similarity in the art style. Big legs, big feet - very 1960's/1970's psychedelic style of drawing (there's no other reason for a barbershop quartet to wear flares :D).

    I think our next move is to workout the likely candidates for the artists of these two images. Although they look different from their depictions in Yellow Submarine, Heinz Edelmann has drawn similar looking figures but the style is just that little bit different.

    [​IMG]

    Another candidate could be British animator Bob Godfrey.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Definitely not Heinz Edelman.. not his style (he never did big foot R.Crumb style figures).. although he was a partner in a small animation company in London at the time and I guess it could have been done by someone else there .. Bob Godfrey through seems a stronger possibilty .. looks more like his kind of style and the kind of gig he might have done.
     
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  11. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    It would be good to know what the animation style and extent was. There does not appear to be any information on the BBC documentation. If it was external then I think there would be credits. The dancer has a name-check. Footage suppliers get noted but there no real clues here. I wonder if it was something in-house. Perhaps we should be checking out contemporary BBC children's animation. Maybe someone did it as a favour while working on something else. I will check this out with a few people to see if any candidates appear. Although it may disappoint our fellow poster here, I don't really think this is a John Lennon piece. I would be happy to be proved wrong though. As you say it does have a more sixties style, perhaps Yellow Submarine inspired, piece of artwork. I am sure someone would be able to recognise drawing styles. It is just finding the right person. Would like to see a few seconds of the animation to get a feel for the complexity. I think we may be talking Crystal Tips and Alistair or Pugwash style rather than Yellow Submarine but it is a lengthy slot of over three minutes so there must be some content. Just nodding heads would not really sustain for that period of time.
     
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  12. VincentR

    VincentR Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sydney
    My friends, I have owned it for 23 years, it has been exposed to the world for 23 years and in that time no one has come forward with any evidence to dispute the fact of what I am saying that John drew it in pen and it was coloured up by the BBC art department. I even spoke to my contacts in Apple through several agents to tell me did John draw it and that was the last thing I ever heard or did and no one got back to me so at this stage the glory has to go to John who signed it '' a peace from John Lennon '' Whether it was John or Joe Blow it does not take away what we are seeing here the last autographs of the Beatles and the only piece of memorabilia in existence from the launch of Abbey Road
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  13. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    Hi Vincent. Please don't take the discussion here as trying to take anything away from your item. None of us actually know the origin, we are all just fascinated by this 'lost' programme and its make-up. It would be great to find out that the animation did have a direct link to John. It is likely that there is some documentary evidence of the animation somewhere. It is one of the few items within the programme that does not consist of 'found' content. Most of the special would appear to consist of films bought in from external film libraries. The two exceptions are the dancer segment that was essentially filmed by the BBC and even her name appears on the documentation. There may be other documents such as payments etc. that are within BBC archives. Copyright of material used would have been important and hence documented. The animation segment would probably have been similar. If animators and artists were involved, they would have been paid so one would expect a paper trail somewhere. Just because I have not seen this does not mean it does not exist.

    Probably the most critical item is the surviving print of the animation segment. It would be great to see the extent of the animation and individual characters or backgrounds utilised. If they are consistently drawn then it does seem likely that an individual or team of animators put the sequence together. The frame we have seen does suggest more than one image wad involved and it is therefore less likely to have had direct involvement of John Lennon himself. That is not definitive of course. It could be that he did provide a single drawing and this wad used as the basis for the style of everything else. It would be absolutely fascinating therefore to see the full segment therefore. The other interesting segment would be the credits. These may include details of who created that segment or credits for the imagery used.

    It does seem likely that at some point more information will emerge. It is a lost Beatles related proramme and there will be enormous interest in its history and make-up. Surely it is only a matter of time and the politics involved around the surviving elements and documents. There is a story here, it is just how it plays out ultimately. The whole chronology and the nature of its survival today is a story waiting to be told. It is the complexity of its resurrection that is the difficulty. It could be done, it is just the organisation and funding of such a project that is the issue. Had it contained more original band footage it would probably have had more impetus. The fact that even though the survivng print is poor in quality it would probably be possible to drop in a good proportion of the original footage using the surviving print as a guide. A lot of the elements probably still exist both sound and vision. The only doubtful footage is that shot by the BBC. That would include the dancer/slides sequence the Maxwell animation and the turntable linking segments and credits. It is a project for someone.

    Anyway Vincent don't take any of the comments or discussion here as being negative or critical. That is not the intention at all. We are all just intrigued by this little piece of lost Beatles television.
     
  14. VincentR

    VincentR Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sydney
     
  15. VincentR

    VincentR Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sydney
    I have revealed everything but Dig Media have no conscience they will never be able to make a buck from this as they own (C) to nothing. All they can do as a Blessing to musical history is to show and reveal everything they have even if its 10 distorted and horribly grainy video clips Cmon Dig Media do the right thing The BBC or The Beatles Apple will never pay you anything
     
  16. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    I have no knowledge of the legal nature of Dig Media's position here. I would expect that they are in the same position as an individual who has recorded a piece of audio or video. The only own the physical medium on which the item is captured, not the copyright or right to distribute it.

    What they do apparently have in this case however is a road map for recreating this programme. It is unlikely that Apple would wish to exploit this item as they had no direct involvement, any more than any of the other suppliers of film that went into the programme, although the clearly would have to be involved in allowing use or overdubbing of the soundtrack for this. The BBC would essentially have to either remake or commission a new documentary and may not wish to do this commercially.

    There could be a solution but I suspect that none of the organisations involved will see huge financial rewards here. What could be achieved is a story of and/or reconstruction of the programme as a historical document. Sadly we are not talking about a reconstruction of Let It Be here which could exploited in the cinema, DVD, TV sales etc. But there could be an interesting curio that would be of interest. Something could be achieved but the logistics would be complex. My belief or understanding is that you would need to re-licence all of the material and use this as a basis to reconstruct and/or create a new documentary. This would involve technicians and programme makers. It is possible that the second element could achieved using some volunteer enthusiasts but the first element will incur costs. Here lies the problem. Who would finance this?
     
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  17. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    Having contacted a friend, who has more experience and knowledge regarding the potential nature of programmes that may have been sold to Australian TV at this time he has some interesting observations:

    "Although there had been some test broadcasts, Australia didn’t switch to colour until well into the 1970s. So although they would adopt the same colour system as we have [in the UK], and at that point could have handled a standard BBC colour videotape, that wouldn’t have been the state affairs in 1969 / 70. So if they did get the programme then they could well have received a telerecording, because they’d have only showed it in black-and-white in any case."

    Given the nature of this programme as a series of film clips set to the music he also wonders if it would have been just as easy to create their own version given the potential issue of foreign sales of all of the individual film sequences licenced.

    He also details a methodology typically used where telerecordings of programmes (i.e. filmed from a studio monitor) utilised filmed inserts into a video or live broadcast:

    "Where a programme which had film inserts was sold as a telerecording the usual practice was for the film sequences to be replaced by the actual film sequences used rather than the programme having ‘second generation’ film sequences as a result of the telerecording process [as a result of the inserted film sequence being broadcast at TV monitor resolution and then being re-shot onto film]. Normally this would happen where a studio-based drama made on tape had a couple of film inserts shot on location. If the BBC were selling it as a telerecording then in their master film copy they’d edit in the original film (or proper copies of them, copied in the film way) in place of those parts of the telerecording. So I suppose it’s possible that the same approach could have been taken here."

    I enquired about the potential of a foreign sale copy of the programme perhaps being recovered from Australia but his experience of recoveries from this territory was not encouraging:

    "While I’m sure the odd things have been found in their entirety, in general, the only parts of long-lost British television that have turned up in Australia are short excerpts which were removed by the censors. These have been kept for years and most famously include bits of Doctor Who episodes which otherwise don’t survive, but it literally just is the bit the censor didn’t like and so often it will be a matter of a few seconds in duration. You get a few that are longer when they think a whole scene is problematic, but not too many. New Zealand did much the same thing."

    It seems a little unlikely therefore that a stray copy is still waiting to be discovered from Australia, but perhaps not impossible. Sometimes these things are 'accidentally taken home' by producers or people who worked on the programme and have an 'interest' but again the situation here does not suggest this as likely.
     
  18. paulisdead

    paulisdead fast and bulbous

    One example of a whole show (and it's censored parts) being found in Australia was The Goodies "Commonwealth Games". The episode was found in the ABC archives, but in black and white telecine form. The episode was censored due to it being aimed at a younger audience in Australia. As with anything censored during that period, the offending scraps were kept on file at the Censors Office (now known as the Office of Film and Literature Classification), after the old Censors files were at the National Film and Sound Archive, the censored scene was found.

    Commonwealth Games (The Goodies) - Wikipedia

    But did the show actually air in Australia? So far, I haven't found a screening so far going through Television.Au's website.

    Classic TV Guides
     
  19. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    I don't know if it was shown but Vincent seemed to think so. As an aside, yesterday U happened upon a Late Night Line-up on catch up where Morecombe and Wise were being interviewed by somebody. I wonder how many episodes survive and why?
     
  20. paulisdead

    paulisdead fast and bulbous

    According to the Wikipedia article, much of the show was wiped. The article lists details of some episodes, but doesn't say what has survived and what was wiped.

    Speaking of wiped, I've also noticed contributor @ajsmith has posted on the Missing Episodes forum searching for details (good work :righton:).

    BBC2 LNLU 1969 Abbey Road special: Octopus Garden sequence? | www.missing-episodes.com

    One poster mentions that the "Maxwell Silver Hammer" sequence was screened on the BBC One news program Points of View. In that case, there may be a backup of at least that sequence that might survive in the BBC archives. A poster also identifies the "Octopus' Garden" clip played on the Rage Beatles special in 2000 as being from the Australian music TV program Hitscene. That makes sense as Hitscene was an ABC-TV program.
     
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  21. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    Assuming that we are talking of the UK Points of View programme I will follow that up. As it potentially includes footage that was originated by the BBC and not bought in from a film library it may be important as it is part of the cache of footage that could not be replaced should a reconstruction be attempted. I suspect it would not include the whole clip but it would still be an important find particularly in the case where it may be in superior quality to surviving recording. Should be able to find some info on this. Good work. It is great to see other little pieces of information emerge.
     
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  22. VincentR

    VincentR Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sydney
    The Point of View post is interesting maybe some UK posters here can contact their archives office. I did contact the Australian ABC archives and they said they had nothing
     
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  23. paulisdead

    paulisdead fast and bulbous

    Hopefully, between us and the Missing Episodes thread, we can at least get a closer idea of what the special looked like.
     
  24. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    I have dropped an email to the BBC archive service asking if they have anything at all within their archive relating to the episode - TV listing text, reviews, frames, production stills... etc

    I don't know if they can share them with me but i have asked anyway.

    If anything does exist... then possibly someone with more power or leverage could maybe conjure up a good excuse to be allowed to see them.

    I haven't asked if they have the tapes - we already know the answer to that. no.
     
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  25. dormouse

    dormouse Forum Resident

    Further to the Points of View possibilities above:

    A friend of mine with many TV related contacts and information access suggests that it is perfectly possible that a clip was shown on Points of View or even the children's equivalent Junior Points of View. Sadly he states that:

    "...if it was on Points of View then it almost certainly won’t have survived. If it was Junior Points of View then it definitely won’t have survived as only one and a bit of those still exist and they’re nowhere near the right dates."

    He also advises:

    "At that point in time, Points of View was usually on Tuesday evenings at around 10.25pm, just for five minutes. But it looks as though it could quite easily get bumped out of the schedule if needed – say if the programme starting at 10pm needed 30 minutes rather than 25 – so [at that time] although it could be on weekly, there seem to be quite a few gaps. The first one after the Abbey Road programme was on 23 September. After that there was quite a break until 28 October. This was quite unusual – just for illustration, prior to 23/09 there had been editions on 27/08, 02/09 and 09/09 and after the October one there were further editions on 04/11, 18/11, 25/11 and 02/12."

    So if a clip was shown it would appear to be the 23 September edition that we would be looking for.

    "Junior Points of View was a bit more regular, and there were editions on Fridays 26 September, and 3, 10, 17, 24 and 31 October. These were longer, around ten minutes, and usually shown from 5.40pm to 5.50pm – at this point in time that meant it was on just after [the popular children's TV programme] Crackerjack."

    Sadly it looks that this may be a dead end, although at least if anyone is searching for lost TV we have potential dates and times. With the programmes being so short there is always the possibility of it having been on a videotape that overran slightly!

    The search goes on...
     
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