Possible that Help! 04257-A1 + B1 is better? Thanks djwkyoto for the info on Rubber Soul! This 198? pressing : The Beatles – Rubber Soul (1981, Vinyl) have not a dropout on "Norwegian Wood" but that sounds strange for my ears
Do you have this Rubber Soul from '81? If so, what is the matrix? In the discogs listing there is both the "A-3" "B-2" variant as well as the "A2" "B1". Regarding "Help": I need to take a look at the copies I have here right now, one from the 60s and one from the 70s. From memory the 60s pressing was NOT good at all, same problems as the other older cuts, no bass AND no top-end, just murky inbetween. Will have to check the matrices, I can't remember them right now.
Yes i have this pressing with the matrix 04115 - A2 04115 - B1 on green white Odeon, it looks like the bass were very boosted, it sounds almost "digital", strange EQ
in search of the "best" stereo pressing of "With The Beatles", after many listening to different pressing (Uk, German, Japanese, Dutch) the very first French stereo (before in France it's only in Mono) pressing of 1977 is the winner but I don't have the famous Canadian "Beatlemania" Wide Stereo (hard to find with the correct matrix)
I have this one Second version, released 1973 (matrix SHZE 327 – A-1 and SHZE 327 – B-3) and it is jaw-dropping GREAT!!! "This is generally considered to be the best-sounding stereo vinyl pressing available."
I would say that is the best sounding MMT stereo pressing, absolutely. But Beatles overall? I would argue/debate that the first pressing UK stereo tube-cut Beatles For Sale is second to none, even on a mid-lower-end system.
The first LP you've listed with the additional hand etched information is odd, haven't seen another German one like that. I would tend to think it's the same as the second LP with that stamped code and is possibly a contract pressing, but you couldn't be sure of what you'd be getting. As to which one out of the other 2 pressings it's already been answered a few times and it gets down to a matter of taste, do you want the bass on steroids version or the more neutral mastering. I've mentioned here before that for German first pressings the better sounding versions kick in from Sgt Peppers onwards due to big changes in the mastering rooms at EMI Electrola. For the previous 7 albums the original cuts are to be avoided as they are dull and lifeless. That mean you are looking for later cuts and that's where it gets tricky. Unlike the UK versions where the cutting sequence is linear, -1/-1 to -2/-2 etc, Germany can have 2 totally different A-1/B-1 cuts. For instance, Revolver was originally cut as SHZE 186 A-1/B-1 (avoid) but the later re-cut version is also marked as A-1/B-1, this time as 04097- A-1/04097-B-1, and it's a different animal. The other Revolver re-cut is easy enough to understand, SHZE 186 A-2/ SHZE 186 B-2. Add in other releases with 2 sets of deadwax codes and it gets trickier still. Some even have the original set of codes scratched out and new codes added, most likely still pressed from the original metal master. So for the 7 studio albums released prior to Sgt Peppers, you'd be looking for mid 1970s to 1980s matrices - PPM (Die Beatles) SHZE 117 A-2/SHZE 117 B-2 (Horzu or Apple label, can have the additional 04219 code) WTB 04181-A1/04181-B1 (green Odeon label) AHDN 04145- A1/04145- B1 (green Odeon label, without the crossed out YEX 126-1 stamp) BFS 04200 A-1/04200 B-1 or B-2 (Blue Odeon or green Odeon label) Help! SHZE 162 A-2 04257 A-2/SHZE B-3 04257 B-3 (Apple label) RS 04115 A-3/04115 B-2 (Blue Odeon or green Odeon label) Rev 04097 A-1/04097 B-1 or SHZE 186 A-2/B-2 (Blue Odeon/Horzu or Apple label) The catalogue/pricing code for German Beatles pressings is also a bit of a guide - 1C-062: From 1969 when Germany entered the EEC 1C-072: Blue Odeon label from 1976, Apple label from 1977 and green Odeon label from 1981
I have With The Beatles and A Hard Day's Night on green Odeon label (wide deadwax), the sound for me is not good, maybe it's a different pressing, you've pictures of labels of "good" pressing?
The recut of WTB and AHDN must have happened very late, way in the late 70s I guess, and it is not very common. I too have the older cuts of both records and agree, they are both really bad. I'll respond to @Ben Sinise s post more detailed tonight or tomorrow and then also post the matrices to avoid that I know of.
So there really are two different re-cuts of Revolver! I still somehow was in doubt about this. According to discogs the A-2/B-2 recut of PPM (i.e. the good one) was released as early as 1966. That seems to match your findings (and my listening experiences, for what they are worth). So it might be they got the new lathe just after they originally cut Revolver but before Pepper came out in 67. Anyhow, they apparently did not redo all of the records at once, since the improved* pressings for WTB and AHDN don't appear before the late 70's or maybe even early 80's. My copies of those two albums are from 76 and 77 respectively, and they still feature the original cuts that sound like an eiderdown had been put over your tweeters. * I personally haven't heard those two, so this is based on your post only. Yip. Strongly second that. My experience as well, instead I could never find a hint of an actually "scratched out" matrix. I came across identical cuts from different pressing runs and found the old matrix to have disappeared completely and been replaced with a new one, sometimes even with the same data, but a different font and a different position in the runout. Apparently they scribed the metalwork and not the lacquers. And these are matrices to avoid: PPM SHZE-117A-1 / SHZE-117B-1 WTB YEX 110-1 1C062-04181-A-1 / YEX 110-1 1C062-04181-B-1 (NOTE that it as well contains the "04181" and it is also marked "1", but the difference is there is no dash ("-") on the newer cut between A and 1. And of course the YEX and 1C parts are gone.) AHDN 10062-04145-A-1 / 10062-04145-B-1 (Same thing as with WTB, less numbers and NO DASH) BFS YEX 142-1 / YEX 143-1 Help! SHZE-162-A-1 / SHZE-162-B-1 RS YEX 178-2 / YEX 179-1 Revolver SZHE 186-A-1 / SZHE 186-B-1 And one last thing: you correctly wrote "better sounding versions". It is unfortunately not like every single German Beatles cut done after 1966 was really really good all of a sudden. They are simply better than the early ones for the first 7 albums. Some of them are ok, some better, some are really nice! And of course that goes for the later albums as well.
I have a Hor Zu stereo Revolver I’ve always liked that has a blue Odeon/Hor Zu label and the following machine stamped deadwax info on side one: SHZE 186 - A - 1 639 953 A Made in Germany Is this supposed to be one of the “good” or the “bad” pressings?
Sure, didn't want to doubt it. There are also a lot of 70's pressings where the original numbers still stand and they simply attached something to them. I just wanted to add that there are also some LPs that in every respect (visually and sonically) seem to be the same, only the matrix has completely disappeared and replaced by another. PPM and the B-side of The Beatles are such cases, both one from the 60's and one from the 70's. I can't tell a difference for the life of me and I tried to a couple of times. What I wonder is: if all the variables are the same (same tape, same lathe, same cutter head, same settings for groove spacing... you get the picture.) would it be it possible to produce a record that is totally indistinguishable from the one done ~10 years earlier? I'm not out to discuss this endlessly, it's just that I find it really fascinating!
That's the first edition of Revolver and telling from the matrix it is a not so good one... Look above your post, I've added some known matrix numbers that can help identify the old cuts.
I don’t know, “Eleanor Rigby” and some other tracks sounded pretty good to me when I pulled it off the shelf and listened to it last night. It helps that the entire record and sleeve are in “bought new yesterday” condition, one of the cleaner vintage Beatles records I own. Clearly better than US Capitol pressings, although that’s not a high bar to clear. Maybe not as good as OG Parlophones, but still not awful, I’d say.
I have the recut PPM, WTB and AHDN and they're fab. They have a narrower stereo image and WTB has a bit of reverb. They're not true representation of the masters but they're nicely cut and fun to listen to. Revolver with heavy bass is good, but my AT cartridge has trouble with the deep bass on Taxman mostly. No problems with the Shure V15-IV.
Well, I didn't say awful either. All I can say is that my copy with this early matrix sounds muffled without much top-end and lacking proper bass and has tons of pre-echo on every song. Some others report that their copies don't sound good as well. Can't say how your copy sounds to you though!
I don't know about that 1966 release date for Die Beatles, would have thought it to be 2 or 3 years later when the improved Neumann SX68 cutter heads made their appearance. The earlier red and white stereo Horzu label release comes with A-1/B-1 and A-2/B-2 matrices, so the switch over was during that label run and before the Horzu "record player logo" red label was introduced in 1972, which are all -2/-2. Discogs is a good resource, but isn't always accurate. For instance, over there entries say the first matrix of the German white vinyl The Beatles double album from 1978 was cut DMM. Not so, the DMM system wasn't installed in Cologne until 1983, they are confusing the first white vinyl pressing with the later DMM white vinyl version from 1985. It's perplexed quite a few members here over the years. Yeah, that's what I found too when I went searching for a German AHDN a couple of weeks ago thinking all the albums had been re-cut by the mid 70s. The original AHDN cut carries on into the late 70s, same for WTB and BFS. Those 3 seem to get very few positive reviews. Of course, and the question is whether they compete with the better UK editions; for me mostly not, but some of the German LPs have their fair share of fans on the forum.
My 062 AHDN is an original cut, and it’s one of the worst sounding LPs I’ve ever heard. I have to wonder if it always sounded that way or if the metal parts were worn out by then.
The Beatles' Greatest 072 sounded great - great bass - not much high end, but sounded great! The With The Beatles tracks had wide stereo and sounded REALLLLY good! The Please Please Me tracks also sounded great - like cuts from Die Beatles LP!
I have this pressing The Beatles – The Beatles' Greatest (1969, Vinyl) 1C062-04207-A-2 + B-2 on blue Odeon Label It's not great, 3 fakes Stereo (She Loves You, Long Tall Sally and I Feel Fine) and the rest it's just ok
