DCC Archive Beatles This Boy for Luke

Luke, Is the edit in This Boy you're talking about at 1:28? Are you using the "Past Masters Volume One" CD as source? Or the Capitol reprocessed stereo?
The Past Masters one sounds particularly bad, so I'm guessing that's the one that bothers you more. But I am curious as to how you repaired the edit because it sounds like the problem is there isn't enough decay on the very end of "cry-i-i-i."
On the bootleg "One Before 911" there is a stereo version with a smoother edit. Have you heard that one?

 

I'm listening to the PM1 version. If you view the waveform, there's a *huge* hole right where the edit is. Get rid of some of that (most of it) and it sounds a lot better...

 

There was a particularly nasty edit in Yer Blues also (on the White Album vinyl) that appears to have been improved on CD

 

It would be interesting if the edit was improved on CD - the edit is on the 4-track itself, not the mono and stereo mixes...

 

Your right, there is a blank section, and it does sound better when removed.

I read that in mastering some of the Beatles CDs there was at least a couple times where
the edits fell apart because of deteriorated glue.

Regarding the actual mix, it's terrible.

But, if you pan the left channel to the center and then doubletrack the right channel (has the vocals) across the stereo it makes for a very nice sounding mix. Also, take some midrange and highend off the vocals to soften the sound.]


Lance Hall

 

Eh...no offense, but BLECH. Just like with the twin track material - I'd *much* rather hear the stuff "as-is" than mono/ADT'd to center everything.

I *would* be curious to hear the 1966 mix, though (done mistakenly for the Collection Of Beatles Oldies LP). While not listed in Lewisohn (for some odd reason), the released mix was done at the same time as the original stereo mix to I Want To Hold Your Hand (ie, when the mono mixes were done).

 

Are you sure that's the 1966 mix? Joe Brennan's site lists the 1963 mix on the single, and I'm almost certain that's the 1963 mix on Turn Me On Dead Man. Isn't the slate "RS 15"? Also, it's Norman Smith - he wasn't on Beatles sessions in 1966.

It's odd - the mono mix says it was mixed from take 15, but the 1966 stereo mix says it was from 15 and 17. Lewishon says it was done in 15 takes, with 16 and 17 being overdubs - how on earth could the overdubs have different takes/slates? I wonder if Lewisohn just screwed up and they are really edit pieces or something...

 

I can give you a musician's version of why the edit is there - it'd be damn hard to sing that high, rock-n-roll "Cry-hi-hi-hi-" and still hit the quiet three-part harmony of "this boy-oy-oy..." immediately afterwards. There's no room to breathe. I know they did it on Ed Sullivan, but even then you can hear just how difficult it is. It was probably easier to edit it together than to let them keep going till they got it right.

And the edit on "Yer Blues" is actually the first verse of the song again, sans vocal track. He didn't know how to end it when they recorded it.

 

True, but I believe that's a different take (not simply the beginning of the same take repeated).

Back to This Boy - if there was an overdub for John's vocal, why would it have been a new take? Where would they put the slate (they'd have two slates at the same time)? This is something Lewisohn was never too clear about...

 

Re: This Boy - if I were the producer, I'd try to get one take where the singer concentrated on "Cry-i-i--ng" and then another take were they skipped "crying" and just went right into the next verse. That way the whole issue would get solved in two takes and you could move on to the next song, editing the two takes together later in another room.

I can't be 100% sure, but I'm *pretty* sure they actually sang and played at the same time on the first few albums, so the main vocals weren't overdubbed anyway. At least that's the impression I get from all the outtakes on boots and on the Anthology CDs. If that's the case, it's just one more reason why they were the best band ever.

 

Also, regarding trying to fix any of the weird edits on the Beatle's stuff - I like hearing them. It makes me think about the session itself, it puts me into the control room, and I doubt anyone other than fellow engineers/musicians/audio nuts notice these things.

 

Yeah, most everything up to Help was cut live with vocals (starting with Help they only would record backing tracks). Of course, there were still overdubs (double-tracked vocals, guitar solor, sweetening, etc...), but the basic tracks with vocals were live.

 

Well...most stuff doesn't bother me, that does - simply a sloppy editing job. The mono isn't as bad, for one thing (although it's not great, either).

A proper edit lets the music flow nicely. The current edit to me says STOP...ok, keep playing...

 

Well, that was the case for the twin-track stuff where they bounced from one machine to another. Each overdub *could* exist as a separate take:

Tape 1:
{take 1 - take 2 - take 3 - ...}

Tape 2 (live overdub with take 3 from above as backing):
{take 4 - take 5 - take 6}

Each overdub uses the same backing part, but they are going onto a different tape.

However, with the 4-track material, the overdubs were on the same tape as the original takes. Each time you did a new attempt on, say, the guitar solo, the previous attempt would be wiped:

Tape 1 (4-track master):
{take 1 - take 2 - take 3}

Takes 1 &2 would be basic tracks only, while take 3 would have all of the various overdubs. Since those overdubs existed on the same physical piece of tape as the basic tracks, it would be both silly and impractical to number them. Whereas in the twin-track days "take 3" and "take 6" would be two totally different tapes, in the 4-track days they'd be the same piece of tape (if take 6 had actually been numbered).

Make sense? (It's easier to visualize than explain).

 

*Exactly*. Same for Ticket To Ride, Day Tripper, Help - well, you get the picture.

I'm beginning to think that takes 16 and 17 of This Boy were edit pieces rather than overdubs, but Lewisohn is no help here...