Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by fairaintfair, Aug 12, 2019.
I heard that before about the title. I first heard it on compilation called dub chill out.
i keep seeing people mentioning The Congos. is Heart of the Congos really dub? i thought it was roots reggae? the difference, to be, having dozens of albums of both genres, would be that dub is mostly instrumental, in that any vocalization is typically just snatches that are repeated and subjected to treatment. i feel like The Congos album (may favorite reggae album ever) is composed of actual songs...
‘Jammy’s A shine’ is probably my single favourite dub mix, although generally Scientist is my favourite mixer.
Keith Hudson - Brand is a must-have in my book. The two cd version of Rasta Communication has most of it, if in the "wrong" order, but the original is best and, for me at least, Brand is a more important acquisition than Pick A Dub. Shouldn't be too hard to find an original copy as it sold like hot cakes at the time off the back of a review in (I think I am right about this) Sounds. I also think I am right in saying (and apologies if this is common knowledge) that you could buy Brand here before the vocal album surfaced. I think the later suffered slightly as a consequence. Just as Two Sevens Clash suffered as an album if you had heard any of the dubs / versions first. The album versions sounded tame by comparison.
I am very fond of Joe Gibbs & The Professionals - No Bones For The Dogs which is a comp from Pressure Sounds. Not a single-minded statement like the various volumes of African Dub or State Of Emergency but definitely worth having especially as a kind of companion piece to VJ's Culture & The Deejays release.
Someone else already beat me to the Dennis Brown presents Prince Jammy Umoja album on DEB (which is pure genius) but in a comparable vein (or at least I reach for these when in a similar mood) I would recommend 4th Street Orchestra - Yuh Learn or Aswad's A New Chapter Of Dub.
As an outlier and coming much more into the present I would struggle to find a record that sounds more like the 21st century than Rhythm & Sound - The Versions especially if you play it against / between the first two Burial albums.
That Dub Chill Out was quite popular I believe, and is the cause of much of confusion. It has Lee Perry and Augustus Pablo (another poular name to falsley use) listed on the cover and neither have anything to do with any content.
Not it is really not Dub, and you are correct in the rest of your analysis.
Brand has been reissued twice by Pressure Sounds (I can't remember why they redid it, there are some differences), and it is correct that it came out before the Vocal album: Keith Hudson - Brand and Keith Hudson - Brand
Pressure Sounds have also reissued Nuh Skin Up (Dub counterpart to From One Extreme To Another) which is also recommended: Keith Hudson & The Soul Syndicate - Nuh Skin Up
As Keith Hudson is a bit of an aquired taste as a singer (I like him) hearing his productions stripped of the vocals may be the best way to enjoy them for some, and also I don't think these albums are any lesser than Pick A Dub.
Three other recommendations: King Tubby In The Mix, The Inspirational Sounds Of Mad Professoer and the Trojan Dub Box Set
...and a special mention for Alborosie's Dub Clash:
Since I "found" dub for myself, I've realized the well of albums is virtually endless. And that is even if I limit things to pre-digital, which I do. This dub path also led me to discover roots reggae artists, so my hands have been full.
Also since I discovered dub for myself, everything else I've ever listened to has become dull and uninteresting. Well, James Brown still has kick, but I can't tear myself away from these dub bass patterns.
The Crucial thread here at the forum is gold.
Yabby You - Beware Dub
Roots Radics - Roots Splashdown
Roots Radics - Radicfaction
Nonsense. There is no way any reggae aficionado would term Heart of the Congos a dub album.
This discussion is a bit futile. Probably better to enjoy the music.
Heck yeah! LKJ in Dub is my third pick....
For years I've heard it referred to as Dub as well? It's certainly not leaning heavily in a traditional Dub sound, but I understand its inclusion on some of these lists.
None the less..what a slab of goodness.
I was referring to the order in which the original lps were reviewed and released in the UK with Brand preceding its source album by weeks if not months. I definitely know I had it first because I remember how hearing Rasta Communication was such a massive shock (and kinda mainstream-y musically) by comparison.
I wasn't actually aware that Pressure Sounds had put Brand out twice on cd. Mine has 14 tracks - the basic ten from the orig vinyl release plus four outliers. At least that is what is listed I am not sure I have ever played anything on it other than the two previously unreleased cuts at the end. You are right about Nuh Skin Up - that is great too. Not quite in the same stratosphere of greatness as Brand. For anyone who doesn't like his vocal style Brand is a win-win!
Might be because LSP uses effects in his regular vocal mixes that most producers would only ever think about using in a pure dub context. Strictly speaking HOTC isn't a dub album but in terms of its musical landscape it sure sounds a lot like dub. As I say a lot of his productions for other singers are that way.
I also say it's nonesense that it's called the greatest reggae album of all time, but that IS just opinon. It's alright but I prefer the Heptones Party Time myself [even if Leroy Sibbles isn't happy about it.]
In fact I greatly prefer Black Ark vocal sides to the dubs, they have a great claustrophobic dub backdrop that is just a bit oppressive for my taste on it's own.
Ok, three more, and cheating a bit again as these are 2-fers (don't think any of it has been mentioned):
King Tubby The Dub Master Presents The Roots Of Dub and Dub From The Roots (Moll-Selekta, also reissued separately by Jamaican Recordings), produced by: Bunny Lee, mixed by: King Tubby - These are really the place to start for the beginner, what I would play for someone who wants to know what Dub is, as far as I know the first albums released under King Tubby's own name (although he is already considered "the dubmaster"), these are archetypical Dub. (Further listening: Tommy McCook & The Agrovators King Tubby Meets The Agrovators at Dub Station, also released as Bunny Lee Creation Of Dub, more Bunny Lee riddims treated by King Tubby.)
Scientist and Prince Jammy Dub Landing Volume 1 and 2 (Auralux, also reissued separately with corresponding vocals by VP), produced by: Linval Thompson, mixed by: Scientist (and some by Jammy on Vol. 2) - If the previous are among the first proper full on Dub albums, these are from the last days of it's popularity, hard Roots Radics ridims dubbed by Scientist, maybe not for the beginner, but this is a good place to start investigating this later era (early 80s). (Further listening: all the Scientist albums released on Greensleeves, Big Showdown, Heavyweight Dub Champion, Space Invaders, Evil Curse Of The Vampires, Wins The World Cup and Encounters Pac-man, all these again reissued by VP with accompanying discs of corresponding vocals)
Inner Circle & The Fatman Riddim Section Heavyweight Dub / Killer Dub (Blood & Fire), produced by: The Lewis Brothers, mixed by: Maximilian (Channel One) and Prince Jammy (King Tuby's), respectively - A bit of an off-the-beaten path suggestion, but if the name Inner Circle only makes you think of "Bad Boys" and "Sweat", this is the remedy, heavyweight and killer indeed! (Further listening: for dubbed up Inner Circle, King Tubby & Jacob Miller E-E Saw Dub aka. King Tubby Meets Jacob Miller In A Tenement Yard, reissued under the later title by Motion, and for dubbed up Channel One recordings , Maxfield Avenue Breakdown, compilation on Pressure Sounds.)
No it's not futile. Dub is the remixing of existing recordings. It typically removes most or sometimes all of the vocal track and re-emphasises other aspects of the rhythm track. It began to manifest itself as the b side of reggae singles in the seventies, providing an alternate version of the vocal, using the same rhythm track. Popularity grew, and whole albums were released in this genre. Heart of the Congos (depending on which version of the release you listen to) sometimes does include extended mixes of some songs, which do of course transition into dub mixes. The album is certainly not a dub one though.
Strange then that it is sometimes listed as "Dub", eh?
So by your logic, a rock and pop album that included 12" mixes as bonus tracks could be termed a disco mix album then.
And I was simply aggreeing with you and confiming that this is how it happened.
I tried to give a probable explanation why these sites have added "Dub" in the description, that it is because expanded reissues of the album have added Dub tracks as a bonus.
While I agree it's better to enjoy the music than discuss what it's called, I am very curious what is you, fairaintfair and palisantrancho, who are the ones so far that have this differing veiw, think Dub is?
If you like Burning Spear, Living Dub and Living Dub Vol 2 are essential. They are the dub versions of Social Living and Hail HIM.
Baby I Love You So _ King Tubby Meets Rockers Uptown - Jacob Miller & King Tubby
One of the best dubs ever. Here's the original version and King Tubby's together:
Arkology 3 CD set
So what is dub-style music called that isn’t derived from existing songs? Twilight Circus Dub Sound System, Sub Oslo, etc.
I think my three selections in my original posting are perfect examples of dub.
"Heart Of The Congos", while I can agree is not by definition stricly Dub, leans in that genre's direction enough for me to file it with my Dub albums? Also, to Mezzer's point, I'm only really familiar with the version that has Dub mixes on the album? So I may be ignorant, in terms of not knowing the original release? I'm happy to stand corrected. I'll even sit corrected.
But this is why I stared this thread. It's so great to learn specifics about this really deep and beautiful genre.
Separate names with a comma.