Beginners DUB

Clearly, if it has cavernously-reverbed cows mooing in the background, it’s a dub album (unless it isn’t). Perhaps we should ageee it’s a roots album deeply informed by dub production techniques, and where we file it depends on the degree of our anality about categories.

 

Something a little more recent.

Prince Fatty Presents Hollie Cook in Dub






Dub companion to her self-titled debut album. Mixed the old school way. No digital manipulation.

 

I have to say that I am not familiar with how the term Dub is used in modern music, maybe it has morphed into meaning something different than it did in the 70s and 80s. But a track doesn't have to be already existing in a mixed and/or released version to be treated to a dub mix (although that is how it originated and what is most common), some songs on classic Dub albums never had a vocal recorded to them, or they are a re-recordings of a classic riddim made for the sole purpose of making a dub mix out of it. If I am not mistaken, some tracks on the classic Pick A Dub, which is considered to be one of the very earliest Dub albums, do not have any corresponding vocal verions.

Ah, I believe we have part of the reasons for confuions here. Dub is not a genre, it is a remixing technique and aesthetic, this technique can theoretically be applied to any music (although making a dub mix of a recording of a Beethoven Symphony would not make much sense), although it is generally thought of as something that was used in Jamaican music during the mid-70s to early 80s. Very different types of Jamaican music were used as basis of dub mixes, from revived Ska and Rock Steady recordings to digital Dancehall/Ragga, so it does not have a unified musical style. After Dub fell out of fashion in Jamaican music it was picked up by and became fashionable in Pop/Rock, many 80s 12" singles have "Dub" versions although the music has nothing to do with Reggae. Sly & Robbie I think were instrumental in bringing Dub out into other musical fields outside Reggae via their work at Compass Point, and for example some of their recordings with Grace Jones have cool Dubs:


Regarding different releases of Heart Of The Congos:

The only songs on any version of Heart Of The Congos that are dub mixes are the tracks I listed in this post:

I also tried to described what Dub is in previous posts, so rather than repeat myself:

 

There were a lot of Dance songs released in the 80's with a "dub version" on the b-side. More often than not, it was a remix and not a traditional dub to the a-side.

This is one of the few songs that was actually a proper dub to the well known vocal version.



It still has the same elements that made up the original song.

This is another one.
Madonna - Into The Groove (Dub Version)

I believe both were done by "Jellybean" Benitez. He knew what a dub is.

An example of a song that was referred to as a "dub mix" and is actually a remix is this.

Jumpin' Jack Flash (Master Dub Mix)

It has a completely different musical bed underneath the vocals than the original. Most notably, the drums.

Aretha Franklin ~ Jumpin' Jack Flash

There are a couple of great threads on here about those kinds of "dubs" and remixes.

Favorite '80s 12" extended mixes

Favorite 12" Singles/Versions/Mixes

I will add that I am in the camp of people that would not call "Heart Of The Congos" a dub album. I don't think I have ever heard it called one in my 30+ years of listening to Reggae. The production has some "dubby" elements in it. That was Lee Perry's sound at the time and he employed it on several other albums that wouldn't be considered dub either. It was production choices made for original vocal compositions.

 

That just means it was recorded and mixed by Lee Perry.

Quoted from David Katz People Funny Boy, from the chapter on Heart Of The Congos: "Perhaps the most startling new element was a mooing cow sound present on several songs, created by the voice of Watty Burnett resonating through the cardboard centre of a roll of tin-foil. As Burnett reveals, Perry recorded him making the sound during a particular session, storing the effect on a master tape for future use."


(The Upsetters "Life Is Not Easy Dub", version to The Meditations "Life Is Not Easy")

Yes, I guess a lot of those Pop/Rock remixes that say "dub" are actually not, and the whole thing with "remix" eventually coming to mean an almost completely re-recorded track that maybe only has a drum beat and/or vocal or some such singular element intact from the original makes that term really confusing (take for exampe Prince who circumvented contracts by "remixing" a single song into multiple tracks that were almost completely re-recorded and had virtually no connection to each other).

I would say that first Madonna track is not Dub either, because to me it just sounds like a mostly straight instrumental remix (even though of course the very earliest Jamaican Dub grew out of straight instrumental mixes), there's really not much happening and I think to be called Dub it would really need to have some further and more active sound manipulation, such as varying echo/reverb, EQ filtering, more abrubt in-and-out mixing of instruments, etc.

But I guess a lot of these tracks maintain an important part of the original idea in that they are B-side reconstructions of the song on the A-side of a single. It should be remembered the majority of Dub tracks only came out on B-sides originally, and only some of them have been collected on albums later, and even rarer is the "Dub album", as a unified piece of work, which is really a small part of the world of Dub.

Yes, it's something else to say that something is "dubby", meaning it has elements of Dub in it, it's the same as saying something is "punky" (maybe a "reggae party"!) without it actually being Punk.

 

Respectfully, I'd argue that no remix style is as uniformed as Dub. If one is then it's a sub genre.

No. I think there are plenty of similarities of form, style and sensibility to suggest that Dub is a genre, or at the very least a sub-genre.

To generalize the genre:

Minimal sound stage.
Minimal bass phrasing (with an emphasis on low end frequency)
Uses of delays and extended reverbs to fill space dynamically
Minimal vocal phrasing
Generalized use of minimal drum patterns
Copious use of spacial arrangements that often lean to minimalism.

Seems like this Wikki for Dub is pretty on point:

Dub music - Wikipedia

 

@fairaintfair: The reason I say it is not a genre is because Dub happens when music is remixed, the actual musical performance has already happened and was usually created for other purposes (i.e. it is the backing track for a song), so the genre the music is in can be Rock Steady, Early/Original Reggae, Roots Reggae, Rockers, Steppers, Dancehall, etc., it then becomes Dub when it is remixed, if you want to view that as it becoming a different genre in the process then ok, that works too I guess. But what the musicians do (the bass playing and drumming etc.) has nothing to with it being Dub, that is created for the song and not with Dub in mind (there are, as with everything, exceptions, but this is the rule), the dub mix, just as the deejay version or the horn instrumental that could, and often would, be created from the same backing track (or "riddim" to use the parlance) was a by-product of the original song, to further exploit the recorded track. Some of the things you mention are definitely traits of Dub: "uses of delays and extended reverbs to fill space dynamically", "copious use of spacial arrangements that often lean to minimalism", but some aren't as those are things that have already happened before we get to the stage of creating Dub: "bass phrasing", "drum patterns", are part of the original song's arrangement, and so is the "vocal phrasing" (although I assume you mean the mixing out of the vocals, which is perhaps the most important signifier of Dub). No one would have recorded a vocal track with the only purpose of it then being almost completely mixed out. Maybe in modern Dub, which I don't know much about, this happens...? Anyway, hope this clears up what I meant.

I'll read through the Wikipedia article later, I am sure it is mostly correct but that I will also have issues with stuff in it, and I also supect it goes into modern uses of the term that I won't understand. I mean the word "dub" is in Dubstep, which I don't understand any more than I understand what's Reggae about Reggaeton.

 

I had this great unlabeled dub cassette many years ago. Listened to a lot but never knew what it was.

Finally figured out what the actual record was a few years ago...but then I forgot again. This thread reminded me of all that and now it's driving me crazy.

 

This thread made me grab this 3CD set on Amazon UK last night. I don't really need it as I already have a double CD comp of his work, and other other dub collections but once your hooked, it's difficult to resist (especially at only 5 euros - including postage!).

 

There's more than three I'm sorry.

Mikey Dread - African Anthem
Mad Professor - Dub Me Crazy Pt 1 (or any other part)
Tradition - Tell Your Friends About Dub
UB40 - Present Arms In Dub
Pay It All Back Vol 1 (or any other Vol, On-U/Adrian Sherwood compilations)
Raiders Of the Lost Dub (compilation)
Imagination - Night Dubbing

 

I understand your argument. And thanks for the clarification. I'd argue that your definition is more about the origins of Dub.

Not to beat a dead horse, but consider that people now create Dub music that doesn't start from a remix at all. IE they play a style of music that is readily identifiable. Thus a genre.

Dub mixes always sound like Dub, yes? If not, then they are mere remixes.

Now Im going to smoke fat one and listen to King Tubby.

Cheers!

 

And this!

 

Another more recent-ish choice, Massive Attack - No Protection

 

Sly & Robbie Reggae Greats (purchased on cassette and the one that turned me on to dub)
Jah Shaka Lions Share of Dub
Twinkle Brothers Dub Pack Old Cuts

And if Heart of the Congoes is a dub album, which it isn't, then I will include the Ini Kamoze mini album with Sly & Robbie. Me and my mate played this to death back in the 1980's, great songs, with brilliant extended dub mixes as well. Altogether now ....."Out in the street they call it murder"

 

Heart of the Congos is definitely not a dub album. it's a roots reggae album....and the best reggae album of all time.

 

This!

 

I have been listening to Jamaican music for nearly forty years now, and I have never quite got in to this album. I love Lee Perry, the magic that he sprinkles on this one is exceptional, and I think that Fisherman is an outstanding song. I have other Congoes albums that I prefer - there must be something wrong with me

I saw the original line up of The Congoes live in Germany at SummerJam. Brilliant performance.

 

I believe the "Heart Of The Congoes" is the best Reggae album ever claim is a relatively recent product of the internet, it definitely wasn't given such hallowed status at the time, there was some hype, but again it wasn't considered such when Blood & Fire reissued it in the nineties, as far as I'm concerned it's definitely something that's arisen in the last twenty years or so and I'd be interested to know the age breakdown of those giving it the best crown, I suspect the majority are under 40 and most likely almost all white as well. It's not like I don't like the album, I do have a few different copies, but I don't think it's even Perry's best album let alone the best Reggae album of all time, if such a title is even valid.

 

That's funny. I also bought a copy of this 3CD set last year, for about $5. Mailed to me in the US from UK. Just a blank 3CD jewel case would cost more to order. Dub definitely distorts all laws of logic!

 

'and most likely almost all white as well"

?

 

I've said similar on a couple of threads on here in the past. I thought the whole greatest reggae album thing came about because of the the reggae rough guide book and B&F re-issue. I'm not knocking anyone who genuinely think it deserves that title, but no matter how many times I revisit it, I just can't see what the fuss is about.

 

Roots Reggae and Dub was created by black people for black people and mostly bought and listened to by black people up until at least the mid-eighties where for the Jamaican diaspora at least the music of their parents was often left behind as they created their own take on new genres such as Hip Hop, House and Techno, later on creating new music such as Garage, Jungle and Grime, if you did a survey of the predominantly black and West Indian buyers of Reggae albums in the seventies and early eighties, the best album title would almost certainly go to a Marley album with Black Uhuru in the top five, "Heart Of the Congoes" would likely be far down the list.

 

Hipster dub.