Belle Klipsch review

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SKATTERBRANE, Mar 18, 2018.

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  1. bluesaddict

    bluesaddict High Tech Welder

    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    Have you heard any klipsch quartet. I have a pair and the sound is fantastic but I'm only running 50 wpc into them.
     
  2. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Much like the Forte, which I like quite a bit.
     
  3. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Agreed, but it was my attempt at humor.
     
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  4. cadeallaw

    cadeallaw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    i have heard a pair of Belles quite extensively and I can't say that my experience with the Belles mirrors yours. I suppose the biggest concern regarding Klipsch speakers are that they will reveal any irregularities in your source material or electronics. Good tube amps worthy of the speakers can cost a fortune. The pair of Belles that I listen to, the owner has put quite a bit of time (and money) to clean up the power: Dedicated power line, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Frutech wall outlets, etc... and uses a solid Octave tube amp (with NOS Gold Lion tubes) to power his speakers. Pretty amazing set-up... very clear, very dynamic. Furthermore, he plays mostly 32 bit hi-res or DSD recordings... no turntable.

    having said that... my system sounds better ;)
     
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  5. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Something like this: Jolida Fusion 3502P power tube amp?

    Or how about a Dynaco stereo 70?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
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  6. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I ordered a pair of the Belle Klipsch from the factory back in 1996. I agree with the OP. I hated them for exactly the reasons that he stated. I also had a pair of KG4's and the KG4's are a much better speaker in my opinion. Bass guitar that the KG4's could easily reproduce were completely absent on the Belles. Shouty, screaming midrange, highs not really extended, and highly colored. On Lesley Gore's 'You Don't Own Me' the drums have a sound that I have never heard on another speaker system. I like many Klipsch models but not the Belle's.
     
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  7. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Yes, I’d go with the dynaco if restored. You should be able to get your money back if you don’t want to keep it. Jolida is likely to be a loss if you move it on.

    Also, we are 3 pages in and not one person has posted that they like Belle’s. I know there are only a handful of guys that post here that like Klipsch heritage and Belles are the most uncommon but one would think one happy owner would respond to this thread title.
     
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  8. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    I bought a pair of Klipsch Forte speakers without an audition. The speakers were not so good sounding. I rebuilt the crossovers with best parts & changed the tweeters to rare titanium type domes hoping for better sound with my excellent tube amps. The speakers still were not that good. I was lucky to sell the Forte for about what I had invested in the pair. No more Klipsch speakers for me.
     
  9. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Forte’s are not Belles, not really very similar. I wouldn’t write off an entire brand based on one speaker. Especially one that has made hundreds of different speakers over 70 years.
     
  10. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I know that Klipsch are generally not well liked. However in the Klipsch forum the Belles and LaScalas are touted as so superior in the midrange especially over the Heresy, Cornwall, Forte, or Chorus. Horn loaded bass better than direct radiator with or without passive radiator.

    I have Threshold electronics, they are fast, liquid, dynamic and I love them on all other speaker including the Forte and Heresy. However, last night I put in my cheapo Xiang Sheng (Marantz 7 clone) and Crown Power Line 3 amp. This has improved many of the problems. So maybe a Dynaco will address them further.
     
  11. Abbagold

    Abbagold Working class hero

    Location:
    Natchitoches, LA
    I have Cornwalls and heresys. The CW is very dependent on placement. It took a bit of time to get them sounding good in the room they’re in. It’s not an ideal listening room setup and the proverbial “sweet spot” is difficult with the built in bar. I dunno if the Belles are as picky for placement but you may need to try toeing and room treatments. Also, as stated previously: tubes are the way to go with Klipsch. Good luck and hope you get them sounding to your liking.
     
  12. cadeallaw

    cadeallaw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    The Belles owner I was referring to is a member on here, but doesn't post often (he can be a bit abrasive). I definitely vouch for his Belles, but he absolutely LOVES them... like if there was a fire at his residence, he would likely save his Belles first before saving any of his pets (or people) also residing in said residence.
     
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  13. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    It takes two men and a boy to carry them out of a burning building! It's funny, I had the same thought about a house fire and that I would save the Belles when I got them BEFORE I started to critically listen to them!
     
  14. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian

    The big Klipsch Heritage speakers are very critical beasties with their over sensitivity of the compatibility with their driving electronics. It took me many years and many amps and preamps to arrive at a sound that really made me happy.

    The above paragraph points out at least IMHO that if fed with really compatible driving electronics this series of speakers can progress from a sort of audiophile hell to a state of SQ nirvana

    Yes these speakers can sound rotten with incompatible driving electronics and it will take a lot more time and probably $ to reach that happy place in SQ than most other speakers. I also believe they give an accurate presentation of the sonic signature of the driving electronics presuming of course proper electrical match up. Also the nirvana state will obviously vary with personal preference so what might work for one might not work for another. But when it finally pays off it’s all worth it.
     
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  15. slovell

    slovell Retired Mudshark

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    I've got KLF-20's with Crites mods. Titanium tweeter diaphragms, titanium mids, and Crites crossovers with the bandpass addon for the mid. They were the first pair of crossovers for the KLF-20 with the mid bandpass that Bob built. IMHO they sound very nice for the money. More than decent for stereo and killer for movies. I use a Dynaco ST-70 Clone tube amp with a Jolida tube preamp for stereo and Adcom SS with a Marantz AVR for movies.
     
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  16. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    good speakers should sound good with good amps (like the threshold). should not require an amp with deficiencies to make up for its own. IMO.
     
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  17. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Well just for the sake of satisfying my own curiosity, I am getting a Dynaco ST70 that was rebuilt by Chris Keller. It seems he is well known for his Dynaco rebuilds. I understand he is retired from this endeavor however.

    I used to dabble in Les Pauls made in the 1983-2005 period. I enjoyed various Fender tube amps like the Twin Tweed and the Bassman. Maybe this enjoyment can translate to my audiophile interests as well.
     
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  18. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I look forward to hearing how it works out. Hopefully it turns this situation around for you.
     
  19. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Unfortunately "good" isn't enough, they need to match. MC 30's are a good amp and Maggies are a good speaker, but they are bad together.
     
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  20. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Yes, they do.

    You only want to use tube power amps with the Bells', La Scala's and the K-horns. They are extremely efficient and not at all forgiving.

    I only run all tubes with the Altec Lansing A7's VOTT's and they are not really harsh sounding horns and I even have a JBL supertweeter on them.

    I don't recommend using an electronic crossover on the Belle Klipsch. Speakers that have a natural harshness to them don't need and extra encouragement from adding anything digital in the chain. They need a tube preamp and power amp of a moderate size, which can be anywhere between two watts and forty watts.

    Passive analog crossovers from ALK Engineering are the ticket.

    The OP would do good by picking up a PrimaLuna, Prologue Five, being closed out by Upscale Audio at $1,199. This is an excellent deal on a nice sounding tube power amp that runs on KT88's, which have a nice bottom end, a clear midrange and nice clean highs that are not prone to harshness. I do have one of these amps and can't stop saying good things about it's sound quality. I don't know of a better tube amp that you can buy for this price. I ran this amp with the Altec's and it is a nicely match combination.

    [​IMG]


    Those comments are correct. The midrange on the La Scala's and Belle's are crystal clear. The driver's are close together, which does give them good imaging.

    Listening to the La Scala's at low sound levels can be quite pleasing. I have on of them hooked up in parallel to one of my rear speakers, which if further back in a corner and I needed to get some more sound from that area of the room.

    Some evenings when am walking around the room, listening to music, I will sit on the floor, directly in front of this single La Scala and listen for a while. It is clear and as long as the volume is not turned up very much, I find it is quite pleasant to listen to.

    Because the drivers are so close together, they are close to a single point source and the sound is blended just a few feet away.

    They possibly used different horns and drivers during different years of production, the same goes for the Altec's. I have a vintage brochure on the La Scala's and on the back Klipsch explains that the Belle Klipsch uses the same drivers as the La Scala's and that the Belle's were designed to look better in the home. They state that both are internally the same speaker. I personally have no idea what is inside of the Belle Klipsch.

    True, I own and have owned five pairs of A7's and I used to have a pair of the model 19's, back in the 80's and the Altec horns and driver's are better quality products than what Klipsch uses.

    If you go on the ALK Engineering site, you will find that Al recommends ditching the Squaker (midrange) horn in the Belle's and the La Scala's and replacing it with other horns.

    [​IMG]


    From the ALK Engineering web site:

    Do your Klipsch speakers sound harsh or give you a headache after listening for a while? It's a very common reaction and the reason is the squawker horn. Not the K55 driver, the HORN! This is the fix.

    On the left (below) is a grill frame from a Belle Klipsch. It's the K500 squawker horn, K55V driver and "Z-bracket" K77M tweeter. A frame out of a Klipschorn, on the right, looks the same except everything is a little bigger. It uses the K401 horn and K55M driver instead. Both frames are held to the sides by 4 long screws. The screw positions are marked by red arrows in the pictures. Remove those 4 screws and the entire thing slides out the front! They are very easy to remove and replace.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    To the OP, check out Al's site thoroughly, and look at the alternate horns and what Al says about the driver's.

    Here is an ALK gentle slope crossover that are used on one pair of my A7's.

    [​IMG]

    The crossover behind the ALK, is a custom built crossover that runs the JBL super tweeter. It takes over above 6-kHz.

    The ALK crossovers coupled by tube amplification is the best thing that I have ever done of my Altec's.

    When you get your crossovers from Al, he provides you with a chart to set the jumpers on the transformer that is in the rear on the left side.

    Because the horns are naturally more efficient than the 15" woofer is, it will be louder and therefore brighter sounding. By changing jumper pairs, you pad down the squaker horn so that it's level matches the level of the woofer.

    The reason that Al builds his crossovers like this is so that the amplifier, sees a constant impedance. The Klipsch crossovers do not do this.

    What the OP is describing is the result of the variations of impedance, which changes with frequency on tube amps. The use of the autoformer on the ALK crossover's keeps the impedance that the amplifier sees constant, and this particular problem will be eliminated.

    Also many speakers are voiced for SS equipment, in fact most are. I run three systems in my listening room which I use for HT and 2-channel stereo. While I power the Altec's exclusively with tube amplification, I use SS amps on all of the other speakers, because they sound good with them. Putting tubes on them might result in the "wooly" sound that the OP was mentioning.

    This is why I choose Sand AND Glass for my avatar. I like and have respect for both technologies. Like anything else, you use what will be the best fit for your system.

    One of our members, @Richard Austen, has in the past recommended a small EL84 based tube amp, called the KingKo KA-101 and has reviewed it. The tube amp is under $1k and Richard is very impresed with it's level of performance.

    Because the KingKo only can deliver 12-WPC, it is not enough power to adequately power most speakers, but with the Belle's, it can deliver more than enough power. The Belle's and La Scala's are even more efficient than the Altec A7's and I have driven them to a comfortable room filling level with a Decware 3.9-WPC single ended pentode tube amp.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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  21. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    MC 30's don't have anywhere near enough power to remotely drive any Maggie. I would recommend a minimum of 150-WPC to drive Maggie's, or more!

    Maggies also demand large amounts of current, most amplifier's today are not designed to deliver the amount of current they need.

    My front mains are driven by an Emotiva XPA-2 (generation one) and can put out 250-WPC into a 8-Ohm load or 400-WPC into a 4-Ohm load. These amplifier's are perfect for the Maggie's. I have a pair of tube Rogue M-150 monoblocks that can put out 150-WPC when driven in the ultralinear mode, that would be perfect for Maggie's. They have both 8-Ohm and 4-Ohm transformer taps.
     
  22. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    The Dynaco ST-70 that I agreed to buy was pulled out from under me. The seller and I agreed on a price and the shipping. He said he would invoice me. I told him I had to go to an appointment, go ahead and send the invoice, but it would be a couple of hours before I would pay--when I got back home. Upon returning I saw no invoice and inquired why not. He replied sorry, I sold it to someone else.

    I have already ordered the ALK universal crossovers a few days ago.

    I have 4 SS power amps here. On OTHER speakers (including the Forte I) I would rank them:
    1. Threshold S300II (lightening fast and great with micro-dynamics, soundstage, resolution etc)
    2. Electron Kinetics Eagle 2C prime (my main amp for over 20 years, great imaging and highs. Just about every speaker I have ever owned has been through this amp one time or another, Current to spare)
    3 & 4. Crown powerline 4 and Crown powerline 3. (I hear no difference, a bit dark on other speakers, tremendous bass)

    I did not try the powerline 4, but with the Belles I would rank them:
    1. Crown Powerline 3 (this one makes everything better based on my complaints in my review)
    2. Threshold S300II (the amp I used for the review)
    3. Eagle 2C (this one makes everything worse)

    So out of frustration, I just went ahead and bought a used Prima Luna 5. I LOVE the self biasing feature, and the ability to use differ type power tubes to "tune" to my tastes and situation. If I keep the Belles, I am selling off a host of power amps!
     
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  23. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I like the way you work! Very wise decision.
     
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  24. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I am an impatient person. I would rather make a WRONG decision than to not make a decision (obviously).
     
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  25. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I don't think you can do better for less and I'd say it is way better than an ST70.. Now you can get weird shopping for NOS tubes. (just kidding, you have many years to let that weirdness develop naturally)
     
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