Benchmark DAC3 vs Yggdrasil Analog 2

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Doug Walton, Jul 11, 2018.

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  1. MusicNBeer

    MusicNBeer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Lol, several levels above the Dac3, really? What A/D converter do you think is being used to create the files you listen to? Not to mention mic distortion. The Dac3 is clean to -120 dBFs!
     
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  2. amirm

    amirm Forum Resident

    Location:
    seattle
    It does although it is not as good as they say it is. I did a detailed analysis of it here: Review and Measurements of Benchmark DAC3

    I encourage you to put RME ADI-2 DAC on your list. It is less than half the price of Benchmark DAC3 and has superlative performance just the same. In addition, it has highly useful features like multi-band parametric EQ you can use to optimize either your headphones or speakers. See my review here: Review and Measurements of RME ADI-2 DAC
     
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  3. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    It’s also something people attempt to rationalize when they realize what they have isn’t accurate!
     
  4. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    You're projecting.

    All I care about is whether what I own sounds good. If it does, I keep it. If it doesn't, it gets sold. As simple as that. Stats can't save a crappy-sounding piece of gear from sounding good.

    Keep your accuracy stats if you listen with graphs but I'll stick with ears, thanks.
     
  5. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Why is this so hard to accept? That there are amazing digital front ends? Isn't it ok that there are more value oriented DACs which deliver a great listening experience, but which cannot come close to reference?

    There aren't any measurements which undermine the reality that brilliant designs with less cost constraint can outperform the best lower priced DACs by quite a good bit.
     
  6. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    It's a good headphone amp for technical listening. For studio style work and listening. I wouldn't consider it an amp I'd choose to listen to for music enjoyment with the HD800.

    Both the DAC2 and DAC3 use what Benchmark calls the HPA2 headphone amp. I don't know if the DAC3 has an updated version of the HPA2 amp or not. My experience is only with the DAC2. The DAC2 isn't a DAC and amp I'd want to listen to the HD800 with for enjoyment. It's too bright and doesn't tame what needs to be tamed to help the HD800 sound better. I don't consider the headphone amp in the DAC2 to be good enough to make you not need a good external headphone amplifier with that DAC.

    The HD800 is really helped by using a good tube or hybrid amp, or a SS amp that has a revealing yet smooth sound that doesn't have glare or SS nasties or SS hyped transients. In short, the HD800 needs a very good amp (in the audiophile sense) to help it sound better. Otherwise the HD800 turns into a face tweeter. Here's a list of some amps that I would agree are the type of amp and type of amp sound that you should look for when looking for an amp for the HD800 or HD800S. However, some of those amps are very revealing of the DAC and how the DAC sounds. That makes synergy with the DAC a very important factor to consider. An otherwise very good DAC with poor synergy with the amp you choose is not going to work out well no matter how good that DAC is in reviews. As an example, I own a Cavalli Liquid Fire and Liquid Glass. Both are very revealing of source. A DAC with the typical SABRE DAC chip sound that is clean but with some glare does not pair well with the Cavalli amps. So a DAC like the Benchmark DAC2 or Mytek Brooklyn or LH Labs Geek Pulse XFi or my beloved PonoPlayer does not pair well with the Cavalli amps (IMHO). DACs like the Gumby or Yggdrasil or Berkeley Alpha DAC series 2 (this is a delta-sigma DAC, I'm not against DS DACs) or Metrum DACs and others like this do synergize well.

    So think about what sort of amp you want to get for your HD800S and then think about what DAC would synergize well with that amp. I think it's a bit of a mistake to buy a highish end DAC first before thinking about what amp you'll ultimately be using with it. I had a Cavalli amp first before I went searching for a DAC that synergized well with the amp and the sound that I was after. I didn't know beforehand if the Gungnir or Yggy was going to be a good DAC for me in my system before I tried. I had to try first. Turned out the Gumby is awesome in my system. I tried a few other DACs that didn't turn out to be awesome in my system. Which doesn't mean they aren't good DACs, just that they're not good DACs for my system and preference. All DACs don't sound the same. Although many sound close. But those differences can become significant in some systems depending on preference and gear. Synergy becomes key. And reading reviews won't tell you about that synergy. You need to listen for that synergy yourself in your system.

    I'd suggest trying to listen to a Mytek Brooklyn or Benchmark DAC3 or similar DAC while you are waiting for the Yggdrasil to get back in stock. Try a DAC like that and compare to the Gungnir Multibit. Do you hear a difference? Which do you like better? Finding out how those DACs sound will solve that bit of audiophile nervosa.

    Monoprice is going to be selling a Cavalli designed amp called the Liquid Platinum for $700. Based on the blended hybrid design of the Liquid Fire and Liquid Crimson, but at over $2000 less. And balanced instead of single-ended. Could be a fantastic amp with the HD800 if you like the Cavalli style of sound. I do. And I'll be getting a Liquid Platinum when it's available just to try. A Liquid Platinum and Yggy would likely be an awesome combo with the HD800 and an Audeze planar. But that all depends on if you like the smoother somewhat laid-back sound that Cavalli does.
     
  7. vrøvl

    vrøvl Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bergen, Norway
    Yes, this is another good reason to get the Benchmark :)
     
  8. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    No, I’m just stating reality.
     
  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Your reality, exclusively. :rolleyes:
     
    JohnCarter17 likes this.
  10. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    Nope. Your reality, too.
     
  11. Doug Walton

    Doug Walton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    I see we're off in the weeds with this. Thanks to everyone offering useful input on the OP - there was a lot of good info posted, and it is appreciated.
     
  12. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    No worries. Added him to my Ignore List. When fools argue with me about what my tastes are, I think it's safe to say I'm not going to miss out on anything they have to write. Great feature invented for those "special" types. :laugh:

    Personally, I'd like to know what you decided to do. :)
     
  13. Doug Walton

    Doug Walton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    I had a Benchmark DAC3 HGC delivered today, and it's installed and working well. Setup and config weren't at all as complicated as I had read about. I'll see how I like it - at least compared to my Gungnir MB. This is truly a trial - and the backlordered Yggy Analog 2 is still very definitely in the picture. Thanks.
     
  14. Dougr33

    Dougr33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    A possibly unique feature of the Benchmark's is the ability to adjust the output levels of both the preamp section into your power amp (thought I see the Yamaha doesn't have preout/ampin ability) and the output for the headphones.. that one may be worth looking at depending on your phones sensitivity. Super accurate piece of kit; hides nothing!
     
  15. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Enjoy the trial! Hopefully, you'll end up playing even more music than usual.

    It's a tough hobby to discuss in a forum of passionate, well meaning people with vastly different levels of experience. Additionally, we each value different aspect of sound quality and listen to different music. It's a continuous learning experience.

    In your situation, I would advise addressing power distribution and conditioning. It's amazing to discover that much of what we hear is our mains. I'd next go for audiophile designed tube pre-amplification. You'll have to find the path that makes you happy though.
     
  16. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    Should I assume that $ 2,000-3,000 would be the optimal price range for a DAC? Below that the sound quality would be very inferior and above that would be just a bit better or just different?
     
  17. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I strongly disagree with @amirm’s suggestion that the DAC3 HGC does not sound as good as the RME ADI-2 DAC. Also, this thread is about a DAC comparison and choice, not a headphone amp comparison.

    I think the RME deserves to be on everyone’s DAC short-list, no doubt about. It’s not on very many audiophiles’ radar in general, but the RME professional reputation has made its mark and plenty of audiophiles have at least started to notice the product.

    I personally like the Benchmark DAC3 HGC better. But I think the choice between the two has to be made after a patient audition of each one. That’s harder to do with the DAC3 HGC and the Yggrdarisl because neither Benchmark nor Schiit have retail dealer distribution. The RME (pro version) can be auditioned at pro music shops (e.g., Guitar Center in the U.S., Long & McQuade in Canada, and many other pro shops). Because the RME ADI-2 DAC is a consumer version of the pro model, auditioning the pro version tells you exactly how the less expensive model will sound. It’s a big advantage for audiophiles to be able to audition the RME.

    If @amirm or anybody else wants to add a headphone amp discussion to the thread, I’ll offer that I prefer the SPL Phonitor XE over all of them. Yet another company with professional chops that is pushing superb products into the audiophile market.

    DACs, DAC/Amps, whatever . . . the OP has an embarrassment of astonishingly great choices.
     
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  18. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    . . . and the Audio Science Review measurements of the Benchmark make it clear that you should get an RME. Such an approach to reviews of that sort lead to measure-baiting. Except, the measurements of all these DACs are so good that it’s extremely difficult to hear qualitative differences between them in side by side auditions. They’re all wonderful.
     
  19. unclefred

    unclefred Coastie with the Moastie

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    I thought that troll was banned here?
     
  20. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I think it is very important to consider what headphones and what amp is going to be used when choosing a DAC. Especially DACs in the $2000+ price category. Churning through several $2K DACs to find the right one that pairs well with your system and ears can get expensive. Choosing the best DAC without considering what gear it is going to pair with and what style of sound you like will likely mean you end up churning through multiple expensive DACs losing several hundred dollars or more each time.

    Someone who likes the sound of the Phonitor amps paired with the HD800 is likely going to choose a different DAC than someone who likes the sound of tubes or hybrid amps paired with the HD800.
     
  21. Fregly

    Fregly Well-Known Member

    Location:
    London
    I did not care for the Dac1 USB used solely for headphones. The measurements speak for themselves and I wonder if I did not have it set up properly with laptop or something and keep looking at the Dac2 and Dac3 wondering if I should try Benchmark again. I mean, it should have no "sound", looking at the ultra clean specs of each iteration. And the headphone amp is very well designed.
     
  22. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Yes, if that's the budget that makes sense for a given component system. There won't be any DACs at that price point which get the most from Wilson Audio Alexias driven by twenty or thirty grand in amplification.


    No. Well, yeah, this would be true depending on how capable the rest of the system components are. It's entirely possible to get years of enjoyment from a well sorted stereo at virtually any level of performance. Some enjoy pushing further along the path toward reference quality, where the listening experience gets ever closer to an "event". Analogous, perhaps, to home theater where a proper front projection set-up simply takes movie viewing to whole different level entirely. There is no substitute.
     
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  23. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Hi-end audio isn't about "ultra clean specs" derived from test tones or anechoic chamber performance, etc. I can understand how choosing gear would be easier if that was the case. Basically, there would simply be commodity components, which could be mass produced for all and sound quality could simply get no better or no worse. Our ears and brain are more complicated. It doesn't matter though, no one changes their minds any more. It's a shame, really.
     
    TeflonScoundrel likes this.
  24. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Above $3K things can be MUCH better.
     
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  25. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Playback Designs MPS-5

    (DirectStream killer)

    *Audiophile "trash talk". LOL.
     
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