Benny Goodman - The Famous 1938 Carnegie Hall Jazz Concert.

I just heard this CD for the first time and am really surprised. I am not familiar with Goodman's music, or this style of jazz, but there are some great performances on this. Sure is catchy.

Anyone else have this one?

Do you have any information on the history of this recording? My CD didn't come with a book in English.

 

That's incredible - after sitting on my wish list for ages, I finally got around to buying this, and it literally just showed up today for me as well! I don't even remember why I had originally wanted to get it before (probably read about it on here?), as I own absolutely no big-band/swing jazz stuff like this at all. But what a great place to start.

A co-worker of mine - who told me that as a young boy, he'd actually seen Benny Goodman perform, probably sometime in the early Sixties - was digging it as well.

 

Great. Have you had a chance to listen to it yet?

 

Sure did. Again, I'm no expert in that era/style, but I loved it.

I bought this version, which is apparently the complete concert, from improved audio sources. There's certainly plenty of noise and clicks, so it sounds like they went lightly with the noise removal. Great ambience, especially on the percussion sounds.

There was a pretty extensive booklet, which I didn't get a chance to read yet, but from what I understand, it was an extremely significant performance - the first time jazz was brought out of the clubs and into the theater, opening it up to a much wider audience.

 

Here's some information:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A701560

The 1999 Sony reissue is worth getting for the new material and information. However some people think the acetates that were used for that reissue are too noisy and that some noise reduction should have been applied. On some tracks, the crackling is louder than the music, and it becomes irritating even for fans of historic recordings.

There is a reissue by the label Definitive (which is a rip-off label and usually not recommended) that used the Sony reissue and applied some moderate noise reduction. To me too it's the best sounding version for that reason (this is about restauration, not remastering). They did not take over the Benny Goodman interview tracks ... and the inevitable Phil Schaap silence track

 

This is the one I have, David. The track listing is close to yours once I take out the "applause" tracks. A little cut and paste. . .

DISC 1:
Don't Be That Way
One O'Clock Jump
Dixieland One Step (Sensation Rag)
I'm Coming, Virginia
When My Baby Smiles At Me
Shine
Blue Reverie
Life Goes To A Party
Honeysuckle Rose
Body And Soul
Avalon
The Man I Love

DISC 2:
I Got Rhythm
Blue Skies
Loch Lomond
Blue Room
Swingtime In The Rockies
Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen
China Boy
Stompin' At The Savoy
Dizzy Spells
Sing Sing Sing (With A Swing)
Big John's Special

 

I am sure someone else will step in. but the way I understand, this was an "experimental' recording process & only two complete pressings were made. The latest issue, I think, was mastered from a discovery of discs in the Goodman archives. "Sing Sing Sing" is electrifying! Gene Krupa & Louis Prima. Music for the gods.

 

I'm afraid I have to fall squarely on the side of 'some people' because I owned the Columbia Carnegie Hall set supposedly from Goodman's closet-acetates and it was so noisy that I found it almost unlistenable even though the music I could hear through the snap, crackle & pop sounded like a fantastic concert. Several years ago I read the same entry you listed above and took a chance on the Definitive release and WOW, what a difference. This is a fantastic concert, and a revelation as presented by the Definitive folks without the distracting noise that constantly made the listener aware of it's source limitations. Maybe it was just my system that didn't like Columbia's Phil Schapp 'restoration' or maybe it was just me, but the Definitive version Sing, Sing, Sings!




Cat

 

This album is famously considered a pinnacle of the "swing era" music. To really appreciate why this concert is so great, you have to consider the context. I'll try to at least give a sense of what was in the air but understand I'm going to have to purposefully overstate and oversimplify to keep it a reasonably short story.

In Big Band Swing during the 1930's, we have a hot, sexy, popular, partly dance-based music style sweeping the charts and shifting music tastes and trends and dance, with other groups taking cues from it left, right and center. It's a style not entirely embraced by the most "polite" circles, who still couldn't accept the fairly recent "devil's music," Jazz. Benny, whose career in jazz dates to the 1920's, was one of the "architects" of Big Band music genre (they called it "hot music" then) and became a giant superstar of the era. I would hazard to say that he was the most crucial after Armstrong, Crosby, Fletcher Henderson and Glen Gray and the Casa Loma Orchestra, certainly to finalizing the style as it was after 1935. Imagine Led Zep at their very top - imagine it being the mainstream.

Benny Goodman's is the most happening group, who in only three years has gone from virtual bust to an absolute nationwide mega-sensation on records, on radio, and in concerts. We are talking household words, with a string of giant hits and sold out concerts. And for just about the first time, they are going to be playing this hot pop music in a premier classical concert hall. On top of all this, the concert finds the group not only at its peak but reaching a new dizzying height.

Even without hindsight, people at the time were saying "...wow." Concerts were rarely recorded back then. It's our incredible luck this one was. When the concert came out eventually, people knew that besides capturing superb music and performances, it represented a pinnacle for the music and the genre and the era in pop culture.

Not many people liked him as a person, being stern, but Benny Goodman was a true master of the clarinet and in addition to that, had incredible eyes for talent and for making a great ensemble. He continued to have unbelievable success through the 1930's and well into the 1940's, a time when such things were changing at breakneck speeds. After things cooled, he kept right on with a great band and in small groups to not insignificant popularity and fine quality through the '50's, the '60's, the '70's and into the '80's.

I hope this gives an impression of the excitement connected with this concert. There is a 2-CD set on London of Benny's return concert - in 1983(?). He is still fine on clarinet and the band is decent, but the overall quality and vibe just doesn't happen. It's a pale shadow of the 1938, so I don't recommend it. It might be of interest as a footnote though.

If you want some of the highlights of his career in modern, albeit mono, sound, I recommend the CD Benny Goodman in Hi-Fi on the Capitol Jazz label. Besides the peak Big Band work, check out his small group work as the Benny Goodman Quartet, it's great stuff. He has a huge catalog.

 

Thanks for your comments. In fact, the Definitive release looks like this (with the inevitable "Complete" in the title ):



http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/record_popup.php?record_id=2702

 

Correction: the return concert referred to in my post above was on the 40th anniversary (1978) and the CD was released in 1986.

 

It's good, fun, and a nice glimpse into a faraway era. I've had the original vinyl for many years and now the "complete" show on CD (with a couple of other reissues along the way). The BG band was at its best -- not that long after the concert, Gene Krupa and Harry James left the group. "Don't Be That Way," which opens the concert, is a great swing number, with a touch of sophistication, that stands up very well today, as does "Sing Sing Sing." And most modern drummers (rock as well as jazz), I would think, could not help but be impressed by the way Gene Krupa blasts through the closing of "Sing Sing Sing."

I agree that the 40th anniversary reunion show doesn't catch fire, even though Martha Tilton is there to sing "Loch Lomond." It's almost embarrassing to hear the way Jack Shelton tries but fails to fill Harry James's old chair on lead trumpet.

 

According to the original liner notes,"One 'O Clock Jump" was originally deemed too noisy for transfer to disc (Lp). They have since had a change of heart. But, the question is, how does it sound? There's also one other song that was added on after being lost for over 50 years. Does that track sound good as well? I'd like to know,since I'm probably going to buy it soon. I know it'll never sound perfect,since it was taken from acetates,but I'd like to know before I buy if it is,at least,decent. Thanx! Michael Boyce

 

"One O'Clock Jump" was on the original vinyl release, with Basie himself on piano.

I have always found the concert, in whatever format, eminently listenable. There is a lot of noise, ticks, and pops, but I'm able to filter it out. Maybe it's something you learn after you've listened to many gray market items . . . .

 

At first, I thought the Columbia/Sony remaster ist great. Because it sounds so much "nearer" than every CD or LP I've heard before. But the clicks are very annoying - as they've decided to leave everything in. And the mastering is... I'd say absent. No mid-range, and a lot of unnecessary treble with nothing but surface noise.
I'd decided to repair it for myself, and not to buy another version. ClickRepair did a very good job, and the rest was EQ'ing.
But still I'm tempted to buy this other CD mentioned above. How is it, compared to the unremastered Columbia? What are the sources?

This is lonely-island-jazz-album #1 for me, definitely.

Martin

 

I was wrong with my previous statement (poor memory), as the Definitive CD is not a denoised dub from the 1999 Sony reissue, but must come from other sources:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.bluenote/msg/22384e669bc9b417?output=gplain

 

I'm a big Benny fan and probably listen to this disc the least out of all his releases. I prefer his small band work and my collection is slanted in this direction. The Adventures in Swing documentary gives good coverage of his life and music. You'll also get a good feel for the atmosphere around the Carnegie show.

 

I think part of the problem is Schaap's inevitable treble boost. I own the original LP set from the 1950's, and it does not sound like that at all. There is some surface noise, but no more than there is on direct to disc recordings from the era.

 

There was,as well the jam "Honeysuckle Rose" on which the original notes says that in the middle of the acoustic bass solo,just at the sound of the audience laughing at the "Energetic bass playing" there was a spoiled portion of the disc that was cut out. However,the new version says "Full Version". Did they record the current version from another source,or is this the "Warts 'N' All" version that was deemed too painful for release by CBS? Michael Boyce

 

I just played "One O'clock Jump" and it sounds good. There is some noise, but it isn't louder than the horns and isn't all that noticable. There were some songs on disc two that have more noise than the others, but, all in all, I don't really notice it.

I just checked and my disc was originally released in April '87. Glad I got it for the 20th anniversary of the CD mastering.


BTW which is the song that was discovered after 50 years?

 

The Avid reissue above has just been reissued again, which I coincidently picked up on Sunday :

http://www.amazon.com/Famous-1938-C...ef=sr_1_5/102-3505822-2876125?ie=UTF8&s=music

There's a ton of information and debate about the two Columbia releases, Schaap, and the Avid release here:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=57173&highlight=goodman+carnegie

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4172
http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18257
http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=16061

 

According to SH himself, the thin, harsh sound on the 1999 Legacy version comes from playing back the original 1938 transcription discs with the wrong EQ curve.

On the other hand, the LP issues of that concert suffer from muted, rolled-off treble. Some LP cuttings are even more muffled than others.

I own two copies of the original double-LP set from 1950 (with the original blue cover which was reproduced on the 1999 Legacy reissue). The labels on those LP's were the original green Columbia Masterworks labels.

 

The three-disc Avid set is THE one to have (in my opinion)...

 

The 2003 Avid set was just reissued with an additional two discs that contain B.G. in Hi-Fi, ...Plays Selections from The Benny Goodman Story, and the soundtrack to The Benny Goodman Story. It's a worthy upgrade if you have the original issue and a must-buy if you don't.

 

Ah for Steve to be given access to all extant original sources and to handle a transfer, reconstruction and mastering from them... then I'd believe we have the best possible.

Playing back a record right is really too hard for most of the music industry.

Same sound?