Best Dylan Remasters

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Scott6, Mar 7, 2017.

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  1. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I haven't got the '99 CD so I can't say. Maybe someone who has it can post the DR or EAC values and I'll compare with the CD layer of the 2003 Hybrid SACD.
     
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  2. onlyconnect

    onlyconnect The prose and the passion

    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    Agreed. Just listened to Senor in all three versions. The remix sounds totally different and it's obvious that preferences will vary. And I think the CAC improves on the old unremastered CD if you want to hear it as originally released.

    Tim
     
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  3. Every Street-Legal CD (and SACD) including the BS-2's, apart from the one in the box and the original 1980's reissues, appears to have the same DR of 8/8/9, which is dismal to say the least.
     
  4. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Does that include the 2003 SACD DSD layer?
     
  5. Musicisthebest

    Musicisthebest Exiled Yorkshireman

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    As all of these are of the sterile remix I don't think this is any great loss.:D
     
  6. Yes!
     
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  7. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    To answer your earlier question in terms of sound quality, I think think the 2003 remaster of the 1998/9 remix is very, very slightly nicer sounding. I had both (got the box) but after listening as loud as I could (nothing like blasting out 'Where are you tonight?' beyond listenable volume) to the 1999 version then switching over, I think the 2003 is a little better. As you point out, still compressed and pretty hot as things go.

    I'd never heard the original mix beyond the 1994 Greatest Hits III CD, so the CAC version was a revelation, but it's a totally different experience for me (there's some stuff in New Pony that is evident on the CAC that's lost elsewhere - just a shame it's not a great song).
     
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  8. Wugged

    Wugged Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    My ears are in total agreement with you :D Just don't tell Steve H. :hide: It's the only time I have ever disagreed with him. But then, I'm old, and my ears are old.
     
  9. Wugged

    Wugged Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    One man's sterile is another man's energy.

    When I first listened to the remix, I was completely blown away by the clarity, drive, energy compared to the original muddy mix. It really is night and day.
     
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  10. AlmanacZinger

    AlmanacZinger Zingin'

    Location:
    The Land of Zaat
    It's ironic that someone who has been known for less than audiophile practices regarding recording and mixing may have more mastering options to choose from than any other artist.
     
  11. stef1205

    stef1205 Forum Resident

    I had both, redbook and SACD and could not make out any difference. I would say keep the 99 CD, it should be good enough.
     
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  12. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    You're just low on vitamins.
     
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  13. Yes of course! :rolleyes:
     
  14. Flaming Torch

    Flaming Torch Forum Resident

    Re Street Legal from the excellent Isis Dylan fanzine/website

    1. Bob Dylan Remastered | Bob Dylan ISIS Magazine

    Street Legal
    Eleven years after the original release of “Street Legal” on vinyl, Don DeVito, the original producer – or as the sleeve notes call him, “Captain in Charge” – returned to remix and re-master the album. This 1999 remix was a great improvement on everything that had gone before.

    Although this release was superseded in late 2003, when the album was issued as part of the 15-disc SACD series, the later improvement is only slight. This album was originally recorded on a remote mobile rig and maybe this is a good as it gets, which is a great pity. The re-mastered CD layer of the SACD was made available as the standard CD release in UK/Europe (512355 2) in March 2004 and in North America (CK 92403) in June 2004.
    Street Legal
    Those who thought that in their pre-release information Sony had put an asterisk against “Street Legal” when it should have been next to “Shot Of Love” were wrong because “Street Legal” has without doubt been re-mastered. Nevertheless, as expected there is no great improvement (it seems that in the case of “Street Legal”, the old proverb that you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear is indeed true). However, while the 2013 re-master might not be great improvement, there is certainly a great difference!

    The original 1980s CD album was both remixed and re-mastered in 1999 by the LP’s original producer, Don DeVito. The “sound quality” on this CD was a vast improvement both on the original 1978 vinyl and on the first CD release. Although this release was superseded in late 2003, when Steve Berkowitz re-mastered the album as part of the 15-disc SACD series, the later improvement was only slight. Quite why the compilers of the new box-set thought the master tapes could yield much more than they have already given up is something of a mystery to me.

    It could be, however, that the intention was not necessarily to prise more out of the tapes but rather to adjust specifics. One important example would be that although the 1999 remix (from which the 2003 re-master was made) provide us with a general improvement in the overall sound, it tended to bury Bob’s vocals a little and this problem has been rectified on the 2013 version.

    As with a lot of re-mixes and re-masters some people will like the old and some the new. Many I’m sure will like this 2013 version which could be described as a little cleaner than the others. The biggest and most noticeable difference on the 2013 box-set version however is the authoring and editing.

    There are a number edits on the new release, the most notable by far being on the opening track, ‘Changing Of The Guards’, where the fade is now significantly cut– the length of the track being 6.41 on the 2013 box-set instead of 7.05 as on the 1999 CD and 2003 SACD/CD releases. However, if you go all the way back to the original 1980s CD, which was made directly from the master tapes used for the original 1978 LP, you will see that the track was in fact originally shorter! I haven’t sat with a stopwatch, but the 1978 LP timing for ‘Changing Of The Guards’ is somewhere between 6.36 and 6.41.

    There is also a very noticeable difference in the gap between track six ‘Seňor’, and track seven ‘True Love Tends To Forget’. The space between these two songs has been almost edited out on the new 2013 box-set so that tracks six and seven are virtually joined. Once again, however, if you go back to 1978 LP that’s how it was– virtually no gap. It seems clear therefore that for the new 2013 re-master Sony has decided to start from scratch, going all the way back to the original master tapes and although they have re-mastered they have left the original 1978 edits in tact. I have to award Sony 10-out-of-10 for effort here but to my ears this new endeavour is slightly less rewarding than the 2003 version! As previously mentioned however, on the new version Bob’s vocals are somewhat restored in the mix and for many this will be justification enough to place the new box-set version ahead of all the rest.

    In any event, as far as pure sound quality is concerned I think it is time to admit that those “Rundown” Studio tapes have nothing more to give us. Pity.

    For those of you who are still confused by all the “Street Legal” mixes and re-masters here is a rundown (pun intended!).

    1978 Vinyl (Mixed by Don DeVito).

    1980s CD (DeVito’s original mix taken from master tapes that had been compressed and equalised for the purpose of cutting vinyl discs!).

    1999 CD (Don DeVito was brought back to carry out a complete re-mix specifically for CD.

    2003 SACD/CD (Don DeVito’s 1999 re-mix was used as the basis for Steve Berkowitz 2003 SACD/CD re-master.

    2013 Box-Set (On this occasion Berkowitz went all the way back to the original 1978 mix to created a new master).

    Many thanks to Derek Barker. I feel a bit guilty posting all his very hard work on SHF and the Isis site is always worth checking out.
     
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  15. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    This should read "Twenty-one years after the original release" of course.
     
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  16. ivor

    ivor Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I got a wild hair and bought a few Blu-Spec CD2s, which boast about using the 2013 "Complete Album Collection" remasters. I got Down in the Groove, Under the Red Sky and Good as I Been to You. The only one of these I had on CD previously was Red Sky, and it just sounds like a louder version of my budget USA CD. Not worth the cost IMO.
     
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  17. Except that the remaster is anything but loud in today's terms so that just goes to show how quiet the original CD is.

    I do agree though that Blu Sec / BS 2 is another load of hooey just like SHM and to my ears SACD too. It's all in the mastering quality, not the medium, the materials or even the resolution.
     
  18. Wugged

    Wugged Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    The technology may or may not be hooey. But, often, the SACD's, Blu-Specs or SHM's (as you point out) have new modern masterings. In Bob's case, these are often taken from the CAC set. These remasterings are not available on individual released CD's. So we should not be too fast to dismiss them.
     
  19. If you look closely at what I said I wasn't dismissing the current BS 2 of UTRS as much as I was saying the "Blu Spec" part doesn't add anything different to the stock CD, as I do appreciate that outside of the CAC box that particular mastering isn't available.
     
  20. ivor

    ivor Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    That's true. I posted the DR logs to the DR database, and the three I bought certainly aren't very squished.

    Some of the CAC remasters were available for lossless download on Qobuz France, that's probably a cheaper option for anyone who wants to try one.
     
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  21. Sorry, but I think some people are hearing things (they wanted to hear) with regard to the Street-Legal remaster of the remix. I picked up the 2004 CD and played it for a few minutes before stopping the disc and replacing it with the '99 remix CD. My OPPO is automatically setup to recognise a disc which has had interrupted play and commence play from the point of interruption. Wouldn't you know, even though it's supposedly a different mastering (which for all intents and purposes might as well be a different music album to my OPPO), the player auto resumed play from the exact same track and point as the 2004 disc. That tells me they must be identical in every way.
     
  22. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    The Oppo uses tracks length for this feature. The peak levels are actually different between the two discs, indicating at worst a level shift, at best a new mastering.
     
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  23. Well that's interesting! Is there a graphic illustration anywhere of the level differences you cite? To be honest it seems more likely then that they simply did a level shift to homogenise the entire set of remasters, given that the remix / remaster of '99 was something of a "wild card" release within the catalogue at that point.

    PS - Based on what you've stated, I'll test my OPPO for 'continuity playback' using the 1986 and 2004 CD's of Slow Train.
     
  24. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    This is really interesting (to me!). Especially as I suggested they were different masterings. Later on, I'll do what I mostly hate people doing, and compare waveforms and the overall EQ of a few tracks and see what happens.
     
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  25. Well based on what I was told I tried Slow Train CDs in my OPPO 205 but unlike Street Legal it did not recognise them as being the same disc! Fail! I therefore think that SL is the same encoding.
     
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