Best Headphone under 1k$?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by thomaskong, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I got to listen to DAVE this evening with headphones. I have some thoughts. More relevant thoughts than I had yesterday before I had ever listened to DAVE.

    I'll cut to the chase.
    DAVE is very very awesome.
    You will likely end up with Focal headphones with DAVE. DAVE likes Focals. Focals like DAVE. There is a synergy thing going on.

    The system I listened to was DAVE with M Scaler. Combined with dynamic headphones plugged into DAVE and a Stax headphone setup plugged into DAVE. The Stax setup was a Mjölnir-Audio Carbon CC very Special Edition amp with Stax SR-009S headphones. Dynamic headphones plugged directly into DAVE were the Focal Utopia and my own Audeze LCD-2 Classic. I'd have liked to have a Focal Clear and an Audeze LCD-4z on hand to try, but I don't have that wallet or clout to have those headphones on hand.

    DAVE is awesome. The layering and separation and imaging precision is absolutely impressive to behold. Wow. The layering was distinct and very noticeably separated but still had very obvious sonic interplay between the layers. Sounds would seem to move forward and backwards in depth. The imaging made it seem like you could count how many singers there were or how many violins there were. Especially when listening to the Stax setup. And it never sounded clinical or overlay analytical. Everything was musical. Fantastic. Makes me want to hear DAVE in a full tube setup that does the full monty style of tube sonic holography. I get the impression that the things DAVE does combined with a full monty sonic holographic tube setup would be magic together. I didn't get to hear such a tube setup. But in my imagination I think those would pair so well.

    I tried my LCD-2 Classic with DAVE. DAVE drove the LCD-2 Classic with the style of planar dynamic imaging that I crave and did that very very well, but didn't have the bass heft and sonic density and drive the LCD-2 Classic can do. The LCD-2 Classic seemed to want a bit more amp heft. The LCD-2 Classic was doing some very very neat sonic things, but didn't have the sonic heft and gravitas and soundstage cohesion that I'm used to with them. Soundstage and imaging kept reminding me that the LCD-2 Classic was presenting an imaging that was wider than what they wanted to do. If they were speakers I would move them closer together and try toeing them in a bit to get the soundstage and imaging to come together. But being headphones I cannot do that. Keep in mind I'm judging them as I would expect them to sound if they had full sonic synergy in a system of this caliber. By all rights what I heard from the LCD-2 Classic plugged into DAVE was spectacular (it was), but not the synergistic awesomeness and drive and heft that I want or expect from them.

    The Focal Utopia were a totally different story. As soon as I put the Utopia on my head and listened to the first song the synergy that DAVE has with the Utopia was obvious. Everything came together. Imaging and soundstage was coherent and acting as one. Presentation was perfect. It all worked together. That is synergy.

    I didn't get to try the Focal Clear with DAVE. I'm going to assume that it also has similar synergy with DAVE.

    I would like to try a LCD-4z with DAVE. The LCD-4z is a 15 ohm version of the LCD-4. I'm curious if DAVE is able to get the low impedance LCD-4z to have the drive and heft and gravitas and imaging coherence that I desire from the Audeze headphones. The LCD-4z are a different beast than the LCD-2 Classic or the LCD-3.

    One other thing I'll mention now is that DAVE made it obvious when the absolute polarity was flipped when I played tracks I'm familiar with and that I know have differences when the absolute polarity is flipped. What was most interesting is that DAVE brought out sonic differences that were different than what I was expecting and what I'm used to hearing from my Schiit multibits. DAVE made the differences more apparent in midrange presentation while the Schiit multibits make the difference more apparent in bass and mid-bass presentation. Fascinating. This is something that I wish I could have DAVE and Yggdrasil on hand for a month to fully explore how they present imaging and differences in absolute polarity compared to each other.

    Another interesting thing with listening for absolute polarity was that the difference was more noticeable using my LCD-2 Classic than with the Focal Utopia. The Stax setup also made the difference in absolute polarity more noticeable than with the Focal Utopia plugged directly into DAVE. Planar drivers rule.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  2. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Thanks a lot for giving detailed information about Dave and headphone synergy.

    I will choose one of either Hifiman RE800s or Sundara and then wait around 2 years before going to top grade headphone.

    It seems that Sundara need more power than Dave.
     
  3. John Buchanan

    John Buchanan I'm just a headphone kind of fellow. Stax Sigma

    Others you may wish to consider:
    Stax SR-007 Mk2 with a Mjolnir Audio Carbon amplifier/ Headamp Blue Hawaii SE.
    Raal-Requisite SR1A with a minimum 100 watt power amplifier (possibly the cheapest option if you already have one of the latter). This one is new and sounds like a real game changer, rather than flavour of the month.
     
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  4. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Massdrop (now renamed to just Drop) has a special Massdrop edition Focal Elex for around $700. I haven't heard the Elex, but it looks to be improvements over the Elear.
    Here's the Massdrop page for the Focal Elex with more info (you'll need to join the site to be able to access the page): Drop: Passions lead here (formerly Massdrop)

    I think that would likely be a very good starting point for playing with headphones with Dave. Use it for a year or two or three while you get more familiar with other headphone options and before jumping into the crazy world of $2K+ headphones.

    The thing with a source and amp like Dave is that Dave has so much resolution. You want to use a headphone that has exceptional resolution to be able to better hear and appreciate what Dave is doing. That tends to be the realm of the $2K+ headphones. For example, Focal Utopia has more resolution than Clear which has more resolution than Elear. You will hear more of what Dave can do using the Utopia than the Clear or Elear. Similar as you move up the Audeze headphone line. When I was listening to Dave using my LCD-2 Classic it was obvious that the LCD-2 Classic was leaving a lot on the table and was not delivering the full resolution detail capabilities of Dave. The LCD-4 series do much better in the resolution and detail retreival department, but at a higher cost.
     
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  5. Joker to the thief

    Joker to the thief Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I’d throw the Mr Speakers Aeon Flows into the ring. At that price range it’s gonna come a lot down to personal preference, but I preferred them to the Focals and Hifiman’s great customer service operation and since they started out as modders, easy upgrade paths.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  6. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    How is the soundstage on Focal Utopia and tonal balance compared to your Audeze or HD650? I'm a bit more open to these now that Focal have revised how they handle warranties.
     
  7. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    I had the Sundara for awhile. Very nice and I like Hifiman Headphones.

    I would prefer the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home to them in a New York minute.

    Do not listen to all that 'Beyers' are bright crap. The Amiron's aren't. They are designed for home listening, not studio work where you want every excruciating last detail. And they are the most comfortable headphones I've ever had on.
     
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  8. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    I am playing Hotel California(Eagles) and Play the music of Simon & Garfunkel (Royal Symphony Orchestra) through Amazon Music using my Galaxy Note 4.

    Somehow Sundara seems to sound better through Note 4 than Dave.

    I am using 10ft extra extension line to connect from Dave to my listening chair.

    That may be why.

    I can enjoy music through Sundara and Note 4 combination.


    Tomorrow I will receive Hifiman RE 800S earphone.

    It will be interesting to compare between Hifiman RE 800S earphone and Sundara headphone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  9. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    I have a decent laptop.

    Dell Inspiron i7559-7512GRY 15.6 Inch UHD Touchscreen Laptop

    It is interesting to compare the sound of Hifiman Sundara with Dell and Galaxy Note 4 through same source of Amazon Music and Youtube.

    I played Hotel California(Eagles, Amazon) and Scottish Fantasy played by Joomi Kang(Youtube).

    It sounds slightly more focused with Galaxy than Dell.

    On the other hand, it sounds more relaxed with Dell than Galaxy.

    Thus it is almost tie between them.
     
  10. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    I have to give up using Dave until I get good extension cable.

    I connected without extension cable with Dave and it sounds very clear and transparent.

    But the problem is that my Dave is in the equipment rack and so I I wish to use Dave without extension, then I shall stand beside the rack.

    It is long way, but Sundara with either Galaxy Note4 or Dell Laptop sounds very musical.
     
  11. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Grado makes a reasonably good extension cable. 15 feet long, about $40 and available from Amazon. It's not fancy. Just the basics. It's the most basic and one of the least expensive extension cables I'd recommend. Just quality wire fed through a housing with molded plug and jack on the ends.

    One negative with the Grado cable is that the ends are molded rubber that is kinda pliable. The pliable nature means that with longer term use the process of squeezing it a little to plug it in will eventually damage the solder joints inside. Eventually after many years.

    One positive with the Grado cable is that the ends are molded rubber and not heavy and won't scratch your gear if they get placed on top of your gear or accidentally dropped on your gear. The more durable metal jacks and plugs that are used for professional style custom cables are heavy and can end up scratching your gear if you're not always careful. But those metal jacks and plugs are more durable.

    Other extension cable options would be similar in construction to this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001J9BQP4/
    Metal jacks and plugs with usually a microphone style cable.
    Many online vendors selling custom cables like that.
     
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  12. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The tonal balance with the Utopia paired with Dave was on the bright side but very fine to my ears. Dave has a very nice and smooth treble and didn't harsh my mellow even though the Utopia are brighter than my preference. No amp and/or DAC is going to get a headphone like the Utopia to have the shelved down treble of the Audeze or the subdued treble of the HD650. Good smooth amplification and a good DAC can tame treble.

    The LCD-2 Classic didn't have the bass that it should. A sign that it was being under-driven by Dave. And that throws off the tonality. So not fair to compare the Audeze LCD-2 tonality to Utopia tonality with Dave. However, the LCD-2 Classic was doing some impressive layering of sounds. That style of layering is something I consider a trait of good planar headphones. So Dave was bringing out and playing to the planar imaging traits and strengths that I like. Makes me all the more desirous to hear Dave with the more efficient and lower impedance Audeze headphones like the LCD-X or LCD-4z.

    The Stax SR-009S setup with the Mjölnir-Audio Carbon CC was absolutely amazing. The SR-009 is on the bright side for my tastes. And this is the first time I've heard the SR-009S version. But paired with the Carbon CC and Dave I'm not going to complain. The treble never annoyed me even though I tried some treble torture tracks that can annoy me. My preference though would be for a Stax with less treble than the 009 but more than the 007. Maybe something more like the Sennheiser HE-60 (a.ka. Baby Orpheus). The layering and imaging precision that the Stax SR-009S setup was doing with Dave was amazing. I've heard the 009 with lesser DACs paired with BHSE/Carbon/Carbon CC and never heard them layer and image like this. Dave made it happen. I've talked about how I like how the Schiit Multibits are able to do layering, and some other similar DACs are able to do layering and imaging precision. The Dave is a delta-sigma DAC that demonstrates that delta-sigma can do that too. Wow!

    That sort of imaging and layering is something I associate with planar drivers. My LCD-2 Classic was doing it with Dave. The SR-009S system was doing it to a super degree with Dave. And then the poor Utopia had to demonstrate it's lack of planar style layering and imaging precision. The Utopia did have very good headstage coherence (left and right met fully in the center and the center was projected out in front of my head) but the layering and imaging precision was less distinct (still very good and well, just less distinct). Overall the Utopia did sound better than the LCD-2 Classic and I would much much prefer listening to the Utopia with Dave than the LCD-2 Classic with Dave. But on the specific aspect of separating sonic layers I liked what the LCD-2 Classic was doing more than what the Utopia was doing. And that is a planar thing. Dave brought that out very well. Many other DACs and amps don't make that obvious at all. Dave makes it obvious. I get the impression that Dave brings out the best traits in planars. Whether planar dynamic or electrostatic.

    Dave also made it more obvious when the absolute polarity was flipped. Moreso on the planars (LCD-2 Classic and SR-009S) than the Utopia. And I find that good planars do that better. I also think that there is going to be a very high positive coloration between headphones and DACs that let you hear changes in absolute polarity and headphones and DACs that are able to do very good distinct layering and imaging.

    It was super fun to get to hear Dave with the SR-009S and Utopia. Hearing the SR-009 in that setup makes me even more impressed with it than I was before.
     
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  13. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Thanks a lot, always a pleasure reading your posts.

    I have not thought much about the 009s until you mentioned this, I too am frankly not entirely completely thrilled with the 009 even though I have one, after some time I did start to like it more than any version of the SR007 and I had around 4 of them. I have been experimenting with my own DIY version trying to create something that sounds closer to the HE90.
     
  14. HenryFly

    HenryFly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    LG V30/V40 smartphone Quad HiFi DAC makes any headphone amp under €200 redundant and then add the 50 Ω Senn 660S.
     
  15. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    There's nothing else like a pair of Stax cans IMO. Mine are almost 35 years old(Stax SR-5/SDR6 still mint). I prefer them to Sennheisser HD580 or Momentums (which are my favorite portable).
     
  16. rodentdog

    rodentdog Senior Member

    A couple of used Focal Clear on the bay for $1K.
     
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  17. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Thanks a lot Ham for your recommendation.

    I got the Grado Extension cable from Amazon.

    Connected to Dave with the Grado Extension, Hifiman RE800S earphone sounds fantastic with vivid details, clear soundstage and effortless dynamics.

    After Hifiman RE800S get burned in (it sounds little bit bright now), then I will compare it with Sundara.


    Thomas
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  18. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    HiFiman Sundara with Galaxy Note 4 using Amazon Prime service sounds so musical that I am astonished.

    Of course, my main system sounds more analytical with clear and 3D soundstage and deeper bass slam.

    But during summertime, I am trying headphone with windows open.

    Fortunately, I can live happily without air conditioning at my house in Pacific Northwest.

    Now I had realized that audiophiles including me tend to spend too much money on audio components.

    Combination of Sundara and Note 4 cost me 600$.
     
  19. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Still love my Sony MDR V6 Studio Monitors, around $80 on Amazon. I edit audio with these. Pretty happy with them. No need for a preamp.
     
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  20. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Although I like the sound from Sundara, I had given up RE800S since it sounds too bright with Dave.

    Since I prefer earphone to headphone for personal reason, I had placed an order for Periodic Audio Be earphone.
     
  21. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    This morning I had compared between SoundMAGIC E11C earphone, HIFIMAN SUNDARA and HIFIMAN RE800s driven by Chord Dave Dac/preamp.

    I played "Centerstage" which is a forgiving Audiophile CD.

    Sundara still sounds musical with neutral sound.

    SoundMAGIC E11C sounds also nice driven with Dave with more dynamics and neutral sound.

    HIFIMAN RE800s sound vivid and dynamic but with occasional bright edges.

    HIFIMAN RE800s may work in forgiving system but not with Dave which offer vivid and clear sound.

    Tomorrow I will get Periodic Audio Be earphone.

    After burning it overnight, I will do comparison between three earphones.
     
  22. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    It is taking strange turn.

    Hifiman RE 800S is listenable with more bass and tamed but fast treble after 70 hours of burn in.

    Now I find sound from Sundara a little bit closed on top although it sounds very musical.



    I use earphone when I work on Photoshop.

    It is not comfortable to wear magnifying glass on headphone.

    Thus I prefer earphone to headphone for my personal reason.

    It may be too early to judge Periodic Audio BE IEM only after 10 hours of burn in.

    But I prefer open and fast sound from Hifiman RE 800S to the neutral sound of Periodic Audio BE.

    To experience the best earphone under 1K$, I placed an order for MASSDROP X EMPIRE EARS ZEUS UNIVERSAL IEM.

    [​IMG]

    Massdrop x Empire Ears Zeus Universal IEMs | Price & Reviews | Drop (formerly Massdrop)

    Thomas
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  23. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Sundara. is a really good deal at 350$ with magical sound although slightly closed on top.


    Now I may have to change the subject to "Best earphone under 1k$".


    I placed an order for MASSDROP X EMPIRE EARS ZEUS UNIVERSAL IEM based upon following review.


    Empire Ears Zeus Review - Headfonics.com


    Tone onset has an accurate articulation – smooth and fast, and when properly driven Zeus displays excellent dynamics. The combination of its forward center midrange and high resolution creates a clear center image, while accentuating subtle effects of echo and reverberation – making them more present, while contributing to that sense of standing in a great hall. This resolving nature brings detail to the foreground, without having an analytical or bright tone. This reflects quality, as it is technically more challenging than simply ‘turning the light up’.


    The soundstage is about average in width, but both tall and deep. It wouldn’t suffice to say imaging is excellent, for it has a precision and 3D feel that reflects an incredible degree of technical engineering. Instrument position is incredibly precise in the different layers spreading along the width and depth of the field, and together with the exceptionally high resolution provides a clear image of the instruments in space. Zeus inherently has a clean background and is highly transparent; although the warmth in the atmosphere is highly sensitive to the source, and can vary accordingly.
     
  24. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    After burn in of 5 hours using Isotek Enhancer CD, I got blown away by the sound of MASSDROP X EMPIRE EARS ZEUS UNIVERSAL IEM.

    1k$ earphone sounds like 30k$ Kef Blade speaker.

    I will prepare detailed report during weekend.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  25. The Ole' Rocker

    The Ole' Rocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Koss UR40’s. Up to $75 depending on where you look.
     
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