Best MC cart for Thorens TP16 MK1?

I'm sick of reading through so many different forums, my eyes are bugging out and I can't decide. So I'm just going to put it out there and see what y'all think. I've never had a moving coil cart before and I really want to install one on my Thorens TD-160 with original TP16 arm (16.5g) and stock TP60 headshell. I've gone through all the math around this, but now I need to hear from folks who are ACTUALLY running an MC cart on the same setup as mine (or have in the past), or at least heard such a setup.

I'm tempted by DL-103, but some feel it's too low in compliance for the arm, and I'd have to add weight most likely. Others that mathematically might fit the bill: Sumiko Blue Point No. 3, Hana EL, Benz Micro Gold, Ortofon Quintet Blue, and Audio Technica AT33PTG/2.

I'm willing to spend up to $700. What friggin MC cart would sing on this arm without fussing with weights? I can't seem to find a straight answer. I thank you all in advance.

 

Are there any MC carts with screws from below? Or do you have a new one? Which cart do you have now on your Thorens?

 

Yea, what headshell are you using, is it the one below? If so, you need a cartridge without a threaded body, or need to modify the headshell, but people are reluctant to do that since the originals do have some value now. I'm not sure how suitable the headshell is for a decent MC cart, it seems a bit flimsy.

 

Not low MC, but I use a Denon Dl110 (HoMc) on my tp16 with great satisfaction. I also have Denon Dl103 which I used on another table with EM of 16gr but never tried it on the Thorens.

 

I've been running a Denon DL-103 on my 16.5 g TP-16 arm (stock headshell) for a couple of years now (with no added weight). Previously, I had tried an Audio Technica AT-7V (MM) and Denon DL-110. I thought the 7V sounded pretty good and the 110 better. I love the DL-103 and have no plans to change it.

Now, this is part of a mostly vintage system. In my more modern system, I use a Denon DL-301 MkII (on a 7.5 g arm). After some trial and error, I think both of the Denon low output moving coil cartridges sound their best with step up transformers (Denon AU-300LC and Denon AU-320).

Good luck with your decision. After purchase, I hope you'll come back and give us your thoughts.

 

So I have the original headshell (above) with a Grado Black (and gold stylus), but I also have another, a reproduction of this headshell that came with a removable top plate, so it can also be threaded from the top.

 

I like to hear this, as the 103 is what I want to try...and if you're running the exact same setup, it sounds promising. I have a few systems as well, and this will be vintage all around. Thanks for your response.

 

OK, sounds like you are set then.

My first inclination is to recommend the newer AT-OC9XML, I've been using it for a couple years as my daily driver, starting on my second one now. There is a deal right now for $50 off at one store mentioned around here, so $500 for that cartridge, pretty nice deal, but I think only a couple more days. And AT will replace with a new one when you trade it in for $281.79.

But, it is fairly high compliance by MC standards, maybe 25cu, so not a great fit on a 16.5 gram tonearm. Cartridge weight is around 8g with screws, so resonance frequency may be around 6.5Hz. Marginal for sure, but workable, in my opinion. And the repro headshell may be lighter without the nut plate and top plate, so maybe closer to 7Hz.

 

Still big fan of the 2M Black and Bronze.

 

Not MC.

 

I know. Sorry, just being ignorant. I mean, why not just buy one of the best MM cards.

 

Because OP prefers MC (and me too ).

 

Both the DL - 103 and 103R sound amazing on my Thorens w/ TP16 arm. How will you be powering this system...just wondering about your pre and gain settings?

 

I see you have a dl110 also, do you prefer the 103 on your Thorens over the 110?

 

I had my dl110 installed on a Technics 1200...and loved it! Completely different systems though...so I couldn't really compare the two.

 

This is good to know. Thanks for the comment. I have a few different systems, but I plan to run the Thorens through a NAD 106 preamp which has a MM/MC switch, into a Bryston 2B, with balanced XLR cables.

 

Great to know though, as my other rig is a Technics SL-1200 MK2. Thanks!

 

The TP 11 arm on my TD 165 is also 16.5 gr. I pushed the limits and went with an even lower output cart, the 103r (,025mv output) with a 14 ohm impedance. I've been using the 103r's for years. It's a conical but it's worked well for me. When I switched to a higher quality, flexible phono pre and the right speakers, it simply brought out the best in the 103r. It was all there, soundstage, imaging, accuracy, clarity and depth. No brightness and harshness. The switch from a Music Hall PA 1.2 to the Musical Surroundings Phonomena 11+ and Vandersteens 2C's was stunning.

I'm a few steps ahead of you so I went to explore what's the next step up after the 103r that will match the TP 11. The answer? Not much without spending a $1K (Hana ML) and then you're badly overmatching the cart to the table. Maybe the Hana EL, but that's an elliptical and a sideways move at best. In the same price range is the already mentioned AT OC9 XML (excellent choice and price for an ML), and the AT 33ptg/ii, but I wanted to stay with the Denon house sound.

So rather than a costly (Jelco 850) replacement for the TP 11, I opted for a new Thorens with an 11gr arm. The 11gr arm will also allow for some excellent higher end carts that won't overmatch the new deck. The aforementioned 301mk ii matches up well, but I went with it's predecessor, the 103D. Just need to install it.

Hope this helps!

 

This does help. Thank you.

 

Just closing the loop here for future info. Again, I have a Thorens TD-160 with TP16 MK1 tonearm. I ended up purchasing a VAS Ebony 103 moving coil cartridge. It's essentially a DL-103 with the same compliance, but it's much heavier due the wood body, really enhancing the low end. The added weight I think makes it a better fit for the TP16 than the stock 103. Plus it comes with a refined nude hyper elliptical stylus.

But please note that the stock TP60 headshell will not work with this cartridge because that headshell can only mount carts from the bottom. I had already purchased a second fabricated TP60 headshell from Pat's Audio online for easier switching of carts, and thankfully this headshell allows for top mounting.

I've only been spinning for a few hours but it sounds incredible. Details jump out, bass is super tight, so much clarity yet retaining warmth. I imagine it will only get better as it breaks in. Couldn't be happier.

Thanks to all of you who offered opinions and advice. It truly helps.