Best Sounding Nightfly: Vinyl vs. DVD-Audio vs. Nightfly trilogy version vs. CD

I'm going this way:

1. MFSL LP
2. DVD-A
3. Regular U.S. LP
4. CD

Ed

 

Yeah. It was a "test market" thing when Dualdiscs were just entering the marketplace. Initially, they were going to be DVD-A on one side and CD on the other. Obviously, they decided against that and the regular Dualdiscs ended up being DVD on one side and CD on the other.

Ed

 

Okay, but does anyone own the DualDisc of NightFly and can comment on it?

 

Yes, I do. I guess I should have said that. It's frankly much ado about absolutely nothing. One side is DVD-A, one side is CD. If you have the DVD-Audio disc, no need to get this. 'Course, since you don't, I say go for it. Just be careful with it. These two-sided discs were a real pain and I'm glad they haven't really succeeded. Also, on older CD players, they don't work so well as the CD side isn't up to "redbook" standards (i.e. it's too thick)

Ed

 

It certainly sounds better than some all digital albums of the time. I still remember back in those days a friend buying a Meridian CD player & showing off with some shiny new DDD CDs. After he'd run out of CDs to play, someone put on some vinyl. Some Miles Davis from the late 50s. Jaws dropped as the gulf in sound quality became apparent!! It was a good few years before I bought a CD player myself: about the time when availability of vinyl vs CD reversed and you couldn't get vinyl easily. It's the only time I've brought some new kit home and been seriously disappointed...

 

Thanks for the info, Ed. I actually own the DVD-A of NightFly, and I recently owned Brothers In Arms on DualDisc DVD-A (I agree, it's a pain having two sides), but I'm now hunting for a bargain on the Fagen MVI boxset - there's simply too much material there to pass up on and with Kamakiriad on DVD-A running $70-80 alone, I want this while it's in print and somewhat affordable.

 

Kamakiriad On DVD-A is pretty awesome as well. $70 to $80 is proably worth it, I was lucky to only spend $35 on a copy.

It makes you wonder when discs can command such high prices why they are not still being issued even as niche products.

 

How different is the sound quality on the DVD-A compared to the mixes on the MVI? How big is the drop off in quality?

 

AFAIK, the hirez PCM stereo on the MVI's are the same as those found on the DVD-A discs. In fact they have an advantage as these are effectively DVD-V discs and don't employ copy protection. So people like me with offboard DAC's can get the full resolution of these. "Morph The Cat" is a reference disc in my set-up, sounds incredible.

The trade-off is with the multi-channel 5.1 mixes, which are not hirez. Doesn't bother me as I only use a 2 ch set-up.

Overall, the MVI set is worthwhile. A lot of stuff on there - 3 MVI's including bonus tracks, 3 CD's and a CD of the bonus material. Plus MP3's etc.

 

Nightfly is great just the way it was recorded. That is why it is talked about so much. Heck, the first time I owned the Nightfly was on cassette. It sounded great on cassette.

 

The Japan SACD is the best digital IMO.

Did an A/B comparison with a friend of mine who was present (who's ears I trust) and we both were in total agreement on this. We did only audition the 2-channel mix since neither one of us is set up for multi-channel.

A very welcome feature is more bass and the midrange doesn't sound as thin. Someone at Warner Brothers-Japan did some great work on this as apposed to just taking the same digital master for the DVD-A and doing a straight transfer.

 

The DVD-A got my vote over the CD.

 

The DVD-A smokes all competition. IMO.

 

OK, let's complicate things further. What about the HDTracks 44.1kHz/24bit? Is this a viable option versus the DVD-A?

HDTracks at least is affordable. I wonder what the source is. I have the MFSL vinyl, which I always thought was great, but it just isn't convenient for me to do vinyl these days.

 

Sorry about my ignorance but all of Donald Fagen DVD-As are stereo?

 

All have both stereo and multichannel mixes.

 

It plays in any regular DVD player?

 

It won't play in full high-resolution fidelity on a regular DVD player. The player has to be able to read DVD-A. Otherwise, you'll be hearing compressed Dolby Digital.

 

I've done a comparison between the CD and the HDtracks download for what it's worth.

Here is the average EQ for the whole of the track I.G.Y. - the CD in green, the HD in white:



Now, if we level match them:



As you can see, they are virtually identical in EQ, which leads me to believe the HD is from the same digital master as the CD.

I did a quick side-by-side between LP and CD not long ago and my memory is that they were virtually the same in EQ, so again, I think they are from the same master. If I get around to it I'll rip I.G.Y from the LP and EQ it and we can see.

I haven't heard the DVD-A or any other versions. I think my LP is an early German pressing but I'd have to check.

 

I bought the Japan SACD and in the end sold the DVD audio. My multi-channel comparison echo your stereo one.

 

No probably with the vinyl, which left with the LP collection over 20 years ago. The DVD-A was my first purchase in that format. It's great, although massive leaps have been made in surround and hi-rez since then. It sounds great, and there's never been any urge to see if another version might be a little bit better.

 

Can someone please tell me if the DVDA is very loud or bright when compared to the old W. German? And what are the major differences between the Japanese SACD and the DVDA?

And one more thing: when you guys analyse a stereo version of some album, do you value more the haedphone sound or the speakers sound?

 

According to this thread

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/sacd-donald-fagen-the-nightfly-sept-14-2011.256789/

the Japanese SACD (stereo layer) is simply a reissue of the DVD-A (stereo layer) in a different format - it's exactly the same mastering.

I haven't hear either but I've ordered the SACD to do a comparison with the CD and HDtracks download.

 

OK, I now have the DVD-A (same mastering as the SACD) and can report on comparisons between the LP, the CD, the HDtracks and the DVD-A (SACD).

I checked my near mint LP and although it was pressed by Alsdorf in Germany it's actually from exactly the same metal parts as the original US issue and has Robert Ludwig's initials in the deadwax alongside the Masterdisk stamp. So in effect it's a US first pressing (RL).

It turns out that the LP, as I suspected, has the same EQ as the CD. In the chart that follows, the LP is in white and it's superimposed on the CD in green. (The track is I.G.Y.) In the bass region, the LP simply smooths out the bumps and has the same overall EQ as the CD. You can see that the LP has slightly less treble than the CD but that's caused by my cartridge which is a bit rolled off in exactly those frequencies. My cartridge also has a treble boost at the extreme top end which also produces that difference between the two at the extreme top end. If the cartridge had a flat frequency response, the two charts would be virtually identical.



So the LP is the same as the CD. And I already showed a couple of posts ago how the CD was the same as the HDtracks. So all three appear to be exactly the same mastering, as far as I can see and hear.

However, the DVD-A (SACD) mastering is very different. It's obvious that it has much more bass as soon as it begins to play, and sure enough, here it is:




Now if I put that chart on top of the CD mastering, you can see the difference:



A big bass boost, as you can see. There's also more energy in the upper end but it doesn't come across as in any way bright. (The curves are a poor match anyway because it's a different mix.)

I think the DVD-A (SACD) mastering, which was also done by RL, sounds stunning and is a big improvement over the LP, CD and HDtracks versions. I highly recommend it.