Best turntable under $1,000

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by CMT, Jul 15, 2019.

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  1. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Yes, once my bran kicked in, I understood what you meant. :)
     
  2. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Well, ladies and gentleman. I am now BACK in the market for a new turntable. After much tedious trial and error, I've figure out that there's something seriously wrong with the old Technics turntable, which is a shame because it sounds really good with the new Grado cartridge and the new amplifier and the new speakers and the new stand I made for it, except that it has developed a horrible hum that just wouldn't go away (NOT the hum that increases as the cartridge approaches the spindle that some have written about). Through a long process of elimination, it seems that there's something wrong with the internal circuitry. If you're really interested, the thread that led me back here is called "Phono noise" on this forum. I'd link to it here, but I don't see how to do that....

    Anyway, I feel like I must abandon the old TT. My original criteria still apply: Up to about $1,000 ideally. Already have a cartridge, as I understand the Grado Green2 P-mount cartridge I have can go on a conventional (as in non-P-mount) tone arm with an adapter. I want something simple, reliable, that offers good sound for the money, and, if possible, something small, as I don't have a lot of space to set it up in--ideally, the feet would sit on a 13-inch wide support.

    Recommendations that seem most interesting are:
    * Rega Planar 3 (but maybe has a hum issue with the Grado Green2 cartridge?)
    * The Technics SL1200 Mk7 (but this seems to be designed as a DJ turntable rather than a high-end audio TT?)
    * Denon VL12 Prime (about which I know nothing)

    Frankly, could go to as much as about $1,500 if it really makes a difference to the sound quality and build quality.

    Again, all suggestions and insights welcome. And thanks!
     
  3. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    It still doesn't seem to have hit our shores yet, but the first review of the <17" wide Pro-ject X1 is in. Again, it has been reported that it's supposed to come with the $149 Sumiko Oyster Rainier cart over here. Supposedly $899.

    PRO-JECT X1 Review | 7Review
     
  4. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Well, I think this thread has petered out, but that's probably good, as I've made my decision. I went way over my budget, but, I don't think I'll regret it in the long run. I've decided not on the Rega Planar 3 but on the Planar 6. The price difference is more than $600, but the machine is likely to outlive me now and will provide many years of pleasure. In the long run, I think it will look like a bargain. Thanks to everyone for all their thoughts and advice. It won't arrive for another 10 days or so, but I'm very excited. Thanks again.
     
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  5. Dennis Metz

    Dennis Metz Born In A Motor City south of Detroit

    Location:
    Fonthill, Ontario
    You will be glad you spent a bit more :cheers:
     
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  6. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Wow, didn’t see that coming. Let us know how it works out. :thumbsup:
    .
     
  7. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Frankly, I didn’t see that coming myself. I was going to go for the Planar 3, but, reading the reviews (and there are so many really enthusiastic, positive reviews), it sounds like you get an awful lot more with the Planar 6, and, as I said, I think it will feel like a bargain in the long run. If I use it for even only 10 more years, the difference will have been $60 a year, which is negligible.

    Now, until it comes and I get it set up and I’m certain that it sounds good, I get to worry about possible incompatibilities, or other issues. What fun!

    In the meantime, I built myself a do-it-yourself platform for the turntable made from a stack of ceramic tiles interspersed with cork tiles and at regular intervals with paperboard tiles, acrylic tiles, and, toward the top, rubber tiles and slate tiles. It’s very heavy, very stable, very flat, and, given its composite structure, it shouldn’t transmit vibrations to or from the turntable. In any case, it looks pretty cool.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  8. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Somehow I’ve never regretted stretching my budget when it seemed warranted. Scrimping? Sure.

    This from the guy that made his own turntable and tonearm, but still.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  9. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    No, I know what you mean. When you spend a little more money than you really comfortably can to get something really good, at first it hurts, but every time you use it or look at it, it’s a pleasure and the pleasure just keeps on going. Likewise when you buy something crappy, it’s an annoyance every time you use it or look at it and you feel nothing but regret. I’m sure I made the right decision.

    (Although, I hasten to say that I don’t mean to imply the Planar 3 is crappy.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  10. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    A shrewd preemptive move on your part. Once you showed weakness by being willing to go to $1500, the sharks would have gathered and the pressure turned to 11 for the jump to the 6 (with a few calls for the 1200 GR). ;)

    Enjoy!
     
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  11. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Good call! The Planar 6 is significantly better than the 3 and you will benefit every time you play a record.

    A friend and I compared his RP 6 with TT PSU to RP 6 with Neo both using the same cartridge and the improvement was of the magnitude to put a smile on your face: you have gone way beyond that.

    Happy listening!
     
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  12. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Now, for the next question: do you all think that a power conditioner is worth the money?

    Right now, I have all this new equipment plugged into the wall with a plain old everyday Home Depot kind of power strip. Obviously, that’s not the best choice, but I’m wondering if it makes an audible difference to the sound big enough to justify investing another several hundred dollars in a power conditioner (especially since I’ve just gone about $600 over budget in buying my turntable).

    The one that’s been recommended to me is the Furman Elite 15 PFI. I’ve been able to find a brand new one from an authorized dealer at $630, which seems to be a pretty good price for this particular box. I just have no experience with these and, as I said at the top of this post, I’m wondering if people here think that it’s a worthwhile investment?

    Thanks for all your help!
     
  13. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    I see that no one wants to touch that. :)

    I've been reading here and elsewhere. No subject seems to polarize opinion more severely than the issue of power conditioners. Some say they're essential and dramatically improve sound, some say they don't and can't possibly improve sound.

    I guess virtually any sound conditioner would provide better surge protection and better contacts than the cheap power strip I'm using, so, I'm inclining toward a cheap power conditioner (not a fancy one like the one I mentioned above) mainly for the large number of outlets they provide, not worrying about whether or not it will have any positive effect on my sound.

    The thing is, some people say that power conditioners can worsen the sound of amplifiers. Who to believe? I feel like Audrey Hepburn at the end of Charade....
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  14. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Just curious. How does one go about making a turntable and tone arm from scratch?
     
  15. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    I think the problem with power conditioners is that the supply and demand for any two houses is never the same - this may (partly!) explain why some some people find large improvements, whilst some little, or none. Some equipment is also more immune to noise and mains variation than others - you very seldom compare like with like.

    I have personally never tried a mains conditioner, but in the last three houses I've run separate spurs for the Hi-fi and made my own mains distribution blocks.

    One installation which was carried out by a friend, we measured the new installation and listened. Whilst the installation was six separate 10mm twin and earth spurs to power an active systems with four power amps, to see if it was worthwhile in a simpler system, I tried it with a turntable, £200 amp and speakers.

    There was an improvement in both measurement and sound. Separate spur(s) for your Hi-fi may be something to consider.

    Interesting to see what other feedback you get regarding power conditioners, but I certainly do not recommend cheap distribution blocks.

    Happy listening!
     
  16. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Good point. Maybe, as you say, the polarization is mainly a reflection of the quality of the existing power people are working with. Still, some argue that a good power conditioner will improve the sound of ANY system, while others argue that it is literally impossible--impossible in the sense that the laws of physics refute the idea--for a sound conditioner to improve sound. I've heard both arguments stated in those absolute terms.

    I imagine you're a Brit? A "distribution block" is what we call a "power strip," I'm guessing? And a "separate spur" is a "separate circuit"? I'm familiar with "mains" .... Just want to be sure I'm understanding....
     
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  17. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Yeah, Brit!

    Yes, distribution block, mains extension = power strip.

    Separate spur is a separate circuit that is not on a ring.

    Some UK Hi-Fi manufacturers have recommended not using power conditioners over the years. But...

    Edit. The Neo should help the Rega big time from the mains variations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  18. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
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  19. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    My DIY tonearm project continues

    I don't think anyone is reading that thread any more, but I still add to it from time to time.
     
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  20. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Looks like you’re having fun. Is it finished?
     
  21. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Getting there. I still need: (1) A DIY arm cueing device (have some concepts in mind). (2) Anti-skate weight. (3) Perhaps play with carbon fiber parts for my tonearm. (4) Make a plinth out of something other than BB plywood (not a fan of its appearance, but it is handy).

    Right now I'm stuck on the cartridge. I went from using my old Audio Technica VS215E in a 1/2" mount and it sounded pretty wonderful, to putting an Ortofon 2M Red on the thing and it sounding dull and lifeless and some distortion on piano past the halfway point in albums. If the Audio Technica cartridge (AT-VM95E) hopefully arriving today sounds good, I can start working on the other aspects.
     
  22. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    I have the Furman Elite PF and I'm very pleased with it. Your results will depend on your homes power situation.
     
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  23. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Thanks for your input. I decided to go ahead and get one and try it. The retailer has a two-week return policy, so, if it degrades my sound or doesn’t do anything for me, I can always take it back. Also, they offered a further price reduction, to $549, from $630 previously, which was already a reasonable discount (the list price is $699 and I’ve seen some online retailers offering the same box for more than $800). As I say, I’ll see how it goes. In any case, I’m done buying things! :)
     
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  24. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    Sounds like a good plan. For me, I notiticed better consistency as my power situation seemed to suffer at early afternoon.
     
  25. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Well, I plugged everything into the new power conditioner last night and listened to a few familiar CDs. I have to say that I’m disappointed. The sound seems clearly worse to me. People say power conditioners extend bass and improve clarity, but my initial impression is quite the opposite. With everything plugged in through the conditioner, the bass seems thinner and the device has introduced a raspy edge to the highs. In general, the sound seems more distant and less musical. I also tried plugging the amplifier directly into the wall, which I had never done before, having always had it plugged in through the cheap Ace Hardware power strip I’ve been using. Again, I liked the sound less well. So, for whatever reason, in my case anyway, the cheap power strip seems to sound better than current from the wall or through the expensive Furman power conditioner. I noticed, however, that it does sharpen up the picture on the TV but, at the same time, it also does something unpleasant to the color. So, I think I’ll be taking the power conditioner back to the store. Too bad....
     
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