Best Western Of All Time ?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by alexpop, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world

    Location:
    Europe
    so, no Spaghetti Westerns? Clint's weeping...
     
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  2. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits.... Thread Starter

    That’s a fair comment.
    European westerns sometimes irk me, usually the wrong type of landscape, trees grass.
    Filmed in Yugoslavia late 60s/70s.
     
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  3. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits.... Thread Starter

    Spain masquerading as U.S/ Mexico is acceptable of course, least terrific Ennio Morricone score.
     
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  4. Bucks

    Bucks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    Canyon Passage
     
  5. Frangelico

    Frangelico Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Not sure about the greatest, arguably The Searchers.

    My favorite is El Dorado. Johnny Guitar has risen in stature. The original Django is very, very good. The original True Grit is the best. I give a slight edge to John Wayne, but Randolph Scott is great too.

    Some great western series too - Have Gun Will Travel and its remake The Mandalorian.
     
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  6. Wigru

    Wigru Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    I don't think there is one best.
    A few that made a big impression when I saw them as a child/youngster & I frequently think about:

    Jeremiah Johnson
    Hombre
    High Noon

    Might be nostalgia speaking. I don't know how well they've aged. I think pretty well because they're not driven by action scenes. I saw Hombre a few years back and I thought the end scene still works very, very well.

    More modern ones that I really liked:

    The Sisters Brothers
    True Grit remake
    3:10 to Yuma remake
    Dances With Wolves
    The Assassination Of Jesse James.......
    Unforgiven

    And of course, 'the Seven Samurai' ;)
     
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  7. Phil12

    Phil12 Radiant Radish

    Where is the poll? So I can put TG TB TU up there.
     
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  8. Gattor

    Gattor Well-Known Member

    The two movies I've watched the most are:
    The Searchers and Stagecoach. Of course, the 1939 original.
    I saw Unforgiven when it first came out and did not care for it. I do not know why. I've seen it a few times since, and love it.
     
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  9. Musical Infidelity

    Musical Infidelity Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    My (partial) list and in no particular order -

    The Outlaw Josey Wales
    Pale Rider
    Rio Bravo
    Tombstone
    El Dorado
    True Grit (original)
     
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  10. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian

    John Wayne as “The Shoootist” and the Jack Palance performance as “Jack Wilson” in “Shane” and I can “Prove it”.
     
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  11. slipkid

    slipkid Senior Member

    Most of mine have been already listed in this thread but I have a very significant addition which lovers of westerns may want to check out.

    For the longest time my 3 faves were:
    The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (1966)
    Once Upon a Time in the West (1968)
    The Wild Bunch (1969)
    I'm a huge fan of Sergio Leone's directing style and OUATIW and GBU are landmarks in the western genre impossible to equal. The Wild Bunch is just a perfect movie and another classic. Never thought I'd ever find anything to stand up amongst those three.

    However thx to someone up here in another thread I got turned onto a new sheriff in my town of westerns. Perhaps not fair to rank it alongside those classics above since it is a 7 episode miniseries which makes it basically a 7 hour saga giving it much more time to flush things out than a regular movie, but it exceeds on so many levels it needs to be mentioned here. Maybe I can turn on one or two of you to it that might like it.

    I recently bingewatched it again while home sick in bed with covid - only the 2nd time I've seen it and my appreciation for it even exceeded my first viewing as I picked up on more details. It is sure to be something I revisit pretty much every year, like other classics.

    It is a Netflix series called GODLESS (2017). If you like westerns, you need to see this one. I wish it would come out on DVD or blu-ray so I could proudly display it amongst my westerns collection but alas it has no physical release :cry:

    It has all of the elements of many classic westerns and then some - like a feared gunfighter hanging it up but forced to go back to his old ways to save ones he loves in distress, multiple characters seeking redemption of sorts, one of the best & most complicated evil badasses in western film history but played by a guy normally cast only in good guy or hapless roles (Jeff Daniels), gunfights and violence galore, mysteries revealed as it goes on, wonderful dialogue, touching humor, many memorable characters and performances, an ending that can bring tears to your eyes, plus has some very new & unique themes to go with the classic ones.

    Brilliantly written and directed by Scott Frank, who has written many movies/TV shows, probably best known now for his recent miniseries The Queen's Gambit which won numerous awards and was a hit for Netflix. I liked that show but think that Godless blows it away. I also love the movie he wrote & directed called The Lookout, which also featured Jeff Daniels in a great role. He is a writer/director I intend on keeping a close eye out for whatever he comes up with next.

    I also dig all of these, some absolute classics, some perhaps flawed but I find very enjoyable nonetheless:
    Destry Rides Again (1939)
    The Magnificent Seven (1960) - the original of course - I absolutely hated the remake
    The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)
    Hombre (1967)
    Hang'em High (1968) - you'll see a lot Clint in my list
    Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid (1969)
    Little Big Man (1970)
    Duck You Sucker! aka Fistful of Dynamite (1971) - another Sergio Leone classic
    Joe Kidd (1972)
    High Plains Drifter (1973)
    The Outlaw Josie Wales (1976)
    The Shootist (1976)
    Dances With Wolves (1990)
    Unforgiven (1992)
    3:10 to Yuma (2007) - here's one that I find the original boring but love this very different remake
    In a Valley of Violence (2016)
    Hostiles (2017)
    There's others I like but not as much as the ones above, and I've never liked John Wayne that much, an actor who probably made more westerns than anybody and deserves many mentions in most people's lists.

    And I need to mention my love of two other western-era TV series that I think are great, ones with story/character arcs like movies (as opposed to series with mostly stand alone stories like Have Gun, Gunsmoke, Rifleman, etc):
    Lonesome Dove (1989)
    Deadwood (2004)​
     
  12. Jim N.

    Jim N. Just another day in what was once Paradise...

    Location:
    So Cal
    Tough, tough call. If I have to choose only one movie then I'll go with my sentimental choice, "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon". Great interplay between John Wayne and Victor McLaglen and that iconic scene of the thunderstorm in Monument Valley. Nathan Brittles may well be my favorite John Wayne character. As nuanced as The Duke ever got.

    Mini-series: "Lonesome Dove" just edging out the overlooked "Broken Trail". Robert Duvall can do no wrong in a Western. It seems like he basically plays the same character every time but it just plain works.
    Series: "Deadwood".
     
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  13. Scooterpiety

    Scooterpiety Ars Gratia Artis

    Location:
    Oregon
    I still can't get over how purely evil Henry Fonda is in that movie.
     
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  14. a customer

    a customer Forum Resident

    Location:
    virginia
    Glen Campbell is not very good in it.
    That is the only issue. IMO
    one of John Wayne's best
     
  15. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    I've heard so much about "Deadwood" but haven't got round to watching it. So much in my to-watch queue thanks to the coof...
     
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  16. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    Deadwood is worth watching for the actors. But I think a big misstake was to make it like a sitcom or a stageplay. There's about five different sets for the whole show...
    I got a bit bored in the middle of the 2nd season and haven't finished it yet. That was ten years ago.
     
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  17. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. finslaw

    finslaw muzak to my ears

    Location:
    Indiana
    Since no poll was offered here I counted up the mentions and the top 4 are:

    Unforgiven - 20 mentions
    The Searchers/TG TB & TU - 19 mentions
    Once Upon a Time in the West - 17 mentions

    Between those I would go with Unforgiven. It has a theme, it pursues it fully and clips along well. The Leone films are worshiped rightly for their style but they are simply too long IMO. And upon a 2nd watch The Searchers is one of the most misunderstood films of all time, but not in a good way. It appears people want to attach themes that aren't really there, or pursued greatly. I felt I was insane since it is the 7th greatest film of all time according to Sight & Sound and the highest rated western in most polls, but after rooting around I found I'm not the only one who found the film to be more racist than a diatribe against racism.

    The Searchers hinges not unto itself, but in reaction to Wayne's persona and a lot of audience mental leaps in the briefest moments ("let's go home" the ending.) Ethan's supposed reversal isn't with a Native American, but a "turned" white woman after the village just got shot up to upbeat cavalry music. Had the roles been reversed, an abducted Native American woman would have most likely been used as a slave by white man, or just slaughtered for the getgo since killing women/children was more in line with raids by the white man. Native Americans who abducted others actually gave those prisoners of war an even place in the tribe and even leadership. The first review sums up perfectly the insanity of comparing its reputation against what happens on screen:

    The Searchers: my most overrated film

    John Ford’s 'The Searchers': A Mediocre Western | National Review
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  19. slipkid

    slipkid Senior Member

    Man I LOVE how much of an evil badass Fonda is in that movie, and I can't believe I ever would say something like this, but Jeff Daniels as Frank Griffin in Godless makes Henry Fonda as Frank (no last name but perhaps the first names of these two characters is no coincidence) in OUATITW look like Bambi. Daniels portrayal of Frank Griffin has to be seen to be believed. Multiple layers of sinister evilness coated in an outward shell of a fake preacher quoting gospel (most of which he makes up).

    These scenes don't begin to do Daniels' portrayal of Frank Griffin justice but they do scratch the surface:



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcGH4FESkzI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrMNLyXKpto
     
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  20. Scooterpiety

    Scooterpiety Ars Gratia Artis

    Location:
    Oregon
    I love Jeff Daniels, I'm going to have to watch that, thanks!
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  21. Frangelico

    Frangelico Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I read the NR article and I don’t agree with The Searchers being overrated - maybe not a top ten film of all-time, but not overrated. Cinematically the film is amazing and the narrative is fairly nuanced.

    Conversely, I do think The Wild Bunch is wildly overrated. A film that is so obviously gratuitous in its violence following the ending of the Hays code in 1968 that it comes across as an exercise in violence for the sake of violence akin to a Fulci zombie flick or a retrograde slasher. TWB also wasn’t a pioneer in violent westerns as several Italian westerns were quite violent, including the use of the gatling gun, prior to its release.

    Then there is the problem with the script itself - lacking in character development and narrative with some bad casting (Robards as usual is average and Borgnine’s persona is too affable) and unintentionally weak and unfunny dialogue.

    TWB didn’t put an “end” to the western either. The epoch of the Old West was already receding in hearts and minds and popular culture, as well as industrially. Furthermore, a number of fine westerns were after it well into the Seventies, both in Italy and the United States. The myth around this film is a fabrication.
     
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  22. slipkid

    slipkid Senior Member

    Who is "Robards"? If you are referring to Jason Robards then I must be going crazy, because I do not remember him being in The Wild Bunch.

    Or are you confusing The Wild Bunch with Once Upon A Time In the West which Robards is in? (but Ernest Borgnine is not in that one from what I recall so I'm still confused)????

    Anyways I love both of those movies but you are entitled to your opinion of not liking either actor or either film of course.
     
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  23. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    It's not the film the reviewer (who seems to have read the Guradian piece...) wants it to be. It's clickbait designed to annoy people who he thinks have been fooled by film writers (ie people who are smarter than he is) into thinking the film is deeper than a rightwing revenge western. Coming soon: Citizen Kane is ****. Shame, I think he's dead wrong: "His hatred and virulence toward Comanches constitute repayment in kind for their brutality, and that’s exactly how moviegoers of the 1950s would have seen the movie." And Scar's hatred and virulence towards the whites constitutes repayment for their brutality too. Yes, it's told from a white POV but I wouldn't have thought it was beyond the writer to see the clear parallels between the two. Evidently, he can't. His loss. Now for that Citizen Kane piece...
     
  24. finslaw

    finslaw muzak to my ears

    Location:
    Indiana
    What on-screen brutality do you speak of? The only moment I see is the Village being destroyed off-screen, Look (comedy relief they kicked down a hill) being killed and Martin asking why that calvary had to do that. That would be significant, but it is hardly given the weight of the opening massacre at the Ranch and subsequent rape/murder of Lucy. Scar is the equivalent of the drug dealer in Traffic, the pornographers in Hardcore or any of these tragic stories of girls abducted by sex offenders. He is a baddie who has soiled an innocent white girl, and it is up to the white man to rescue her and see past the fact she has been soiled and brainwashed by these non-white bad guys. Ethan wanting to gun down Debbie doesn't seem to have a sufficent buildup IMO, and for the 50's audience their belief that it is a logical (but not exactly right) reaction takes root in their own prejudices of interracial relations. The film would have made a more lasting impact if Ethan indeed did gun her down, the audience would have to confront themselves and see Ethan (and themselves) as wrong. But instead Debbie is rescued and returns to "civilized" life willingly, all is good again in white America. Now the true story would be a better tale, a girl "rescued" who never ever wants to be, but then that would be saying Native American life is somehow better or equal to "civilized" life and we can't have that message in the 1950's.

    I've seen this film being justified in its depiction of Native American's raping/murdering as "well, it was true that they did that." But using another John Ford film (as actor): Enslaved black people did rebel and murder/rape their white "masters," but it wasn't super common. So when watching Birth of a Nation's famous scene of murderous rapist black people can we chalk it up to "well, that did happen." In film it isn't just what you show, but also what you omit. There is a truth about our Native American genocide of peaceful tribes that has hardly been touched on in film despite hundreds of Westerns, and IMO The Searchers does more harm towards that end than restoration. A brutally frank depiction of a dated mostly one-sided story.

    Ox-Box Incident was so mature next to The Searchers, easily more timeless and sure of what it is saying, which is the early rebuttal to what John Wayne did during the blacklist witch hunts and in films like The Green Berets.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
  25. Nodrog96

    Nodrog96 Forum Resident

    Location:
    NE Scotland
    For some reason I've always enjoyed this film. Poignant scenes between Terence Hill and Henry Fonda at the end which could be seen as not only being about the last days of the gun slingers in the old west but the spaghetti western genre itself. :shrug:

    It also had a catchy theme tune courtesy of the one and only Ennio Morricone - don't forget to join in with the la la las..

    [​IMG]

     
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