Best ' Whack ' on The Sopranos.

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Wildest cat from montana, Jun 2, 2021.

  1. Big Jimbo

    Big Jimbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY
    apparently 92 (or 93) people got killed on “The Sopranos”

    List of deaths

    Back in the days of wholesome family viewing on television (1958-1963) there were 245 killings in the 168 episodes of “The Rifleman” with Lucas McCain (Chuck Connors) doing about half, bringing up son Mark (Johnny Crawford) just right.
     
  2. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    They took some liberties there to get that number up, didn't they? I wouldn't consider it someone killed on the show unless we saw it on screen or if it was an actual character we had seen prior (like Livia, whose death was off screen for obvious reasons). Putting Dominic (the grandson of the tailor that Junior went to) on there is a reach, as is putting Melfi's patient to whom she referred as having died when she was on the lamb.
     
  3. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    I was thinking about this and I have a hard time seeing Ad as anything but innocent. She was thrust into a pressure cooker situation that was too big for her to deal with and she grew up thinking all of the mob activity was normal. Unlike Carm, she lived a very modest life in a rented apartment, working mostly as a hostess. She only quit because Chris was promoted, but the promise of more money never happened for them. She turned to drugs to numb out to the pressure and abuse she faced, but never got addicted like Chris. What I loved about how they wrote her is that she was genuinely caring and compassionate. Even the FBI ladies who used her --Ad wanted to know about their lives. And like everyone else, they mistreated her and tried to use her for their own gain. As written, she was a pure spirit who didn't wish harm on anyone. She became an accessory to many crimes because she was working at a club that had been taken over by Tony's crew and a lot of shady business went on there, but she was trying to run the place clean and tried to look the other way. She turned in Tina because a pair of agents were harassing her and not letting her out of the car until they had leads, and Tina had flirted with Chris right in front of her face in a totally inappropriate way that could not go unanswered. I didn't find it petty, but Ad's best play under the circumstances. It's not like she went to the FBI; they were harassing her for info.
     
  4. steveharris

    steveharris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    I wasn’t a regular follower of the show but Watching that episode I could feel the anxiety during the car ride and end.
     
  5. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Some very fair points here.

    I do think that it is fair to point that they only lived in a modest apartment because Chrissy dragged his feet getting them a better place, largely because he was an addict who was more focused on his next high than improving his lot if life. Ade drinking wine in front of Chris several times after he got out of rehab was a poor move, I might add, and it always bugged me that when she quit Vesuvio's, she did it with no notice, not even giving Artie the courtesy of a two week notice.

    It was tough to see how working with the feds affected her, especially the stomach problem. The stress basically gave her IBS. I actually do think her main handler with the feds, Robyn, cared about her more than she often let on. She had to usually maintain the tough and business-like exterior most of the time, especially when talking to in front of the others, but when it was just the two of them, she did seem to care for Ade's well being. She seemed genuinely distraught when it was clear what had happened to Ade in Long Term Parking. It reminded me of when Frank told Skip (when he was handling Sal) that these things can go both ways. "You could find yourself getting too close."

    And as a sidebar, was Skip the worst fed ever? He and Sal run into Jimmy Bones (the Elvis lookalike) in a party store, which Sal freaks out about because he was worried Jimmy would suspect he was a rat. Days later, Jimmy is beaten to death in his home. I WONDER WHO COULD HAVE DONE IT?? LOL
     
  6. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    Yeah, Ad should have tried harder to abstain from drugs and alcohol around Chris, but she was having trouble dealing with all the pressure and abuse, and Chris' relapses were not at all her fault. She was caught between two unreasonable people in Chris and Artie when she had to quit Vesuvio's because Artie was in love (or at least lust) and as usual she didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. So she didn't handle it professionally, but that was at least partially on Artie, who was not exactly professional in the workplace himself. It certainly would have been horrible for her to try to hostess for him two more weeks with him trying to make inappropriate advances, and probably having Chris rearrange Artie's face as a result. Again, I'm not seeing Ad as someone who could be blamed in any of this.

    I disagree. She didn't care a bit about Ad, and was a bully. Ad repeatedly tried to push the pause button on the bullying, asking how much longer she would have to pass along info and trying to form some type of relationship on a human level with Robyn, asking if Robyn had any kids. Robyn lied and said no. It was later revealed she did have a kid, so why lie about it? The answer is that she never cared about Ad on a human level, and never had an honest conversation with Ad. Like everyone else in Ad's life, Robyn was just abusing her.

    I don't see it. Robyn messed up bigtime. She should have never let Ad go back to talk to Chris no matter how much Ad wanted to. Robyn played it all wrong and a key witness that had been a prime informant, not to mention a young lady with her whole life in front of her, was murdered as a result. That was why she was distraught--she was concerned about her career. If she was concerned about Ad, she would have at least put a tail on Ad.

    Yep. Plus Skip got Sal off for running over the bicyclist, and basically knew Sal was an accomplice in the Bevelaqua murder. The show casts the FBI guys as bungling idiots who are not much better than the mafia--which might not be far from the truth, in some cases.
     
  7. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    Chase kicked us fans in the ass with that miserable ending...being creative is one thing, but come on, man...it's mob TV show not high art...no need for that kind of ending whatsoever... IMO...
     
  8. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    I don't think Ade knew about Artie's feeling for her at all until they went to dinner after she had quit; he tried to gently hold her hand several times and I think that is when she got and gently pulled away. It's not like Chris was going to tell her about his behavior when he called Chris a POS for stealing her away, and Chris probably took that more as Artie being a loudmouthed buffoon rather than a reveal about his actual feelings. Even Tony laughed in his face when Artie said he loved her.

    A bully? Nah, I don't see that at all. As a fed handling an informant, that is their job to apply as much pressure as possible to get as much info out of them as possible, and there is no reason why Robyn should have to share any personal info with an informant. In fact, I would imagine they are told not to do so by their bosses. And the fact that Robyn once shared the story about the relative that got shot which is what made her want to be a fed, showed that she was at least willing to share a little.

    Oh, I agree that Robyn messed up. Like you said, at the very least, they should have had someone on Ade watching her especially when she asked for more time and then several more hours elapses before Sil picked her up. That was an epic fail on her part. But I do think she had gotten close enough to where she was upset about Ade's (implied) death.

    "A quote unquote husky accomplice." Pretty sure that could have been 80% of Tony's crew, LOL.
     
  9. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    Well, she couldn't have known Artie had thoughts of leaving his wife for her, but she knew he was a weirdo. She was too uncomfortable to give him two weeks' notice and then have to go to work with him being weird. She probably played it right by avoiding the two-week notice. It gave Artie less time to do something inappropriate--but he managed to do that when he saw Chris. Luckily Tony was there to mitigate.

    Hmm, I think their handling of Ad was even beyond bully--it was illegal. All those trips in their car, from the initial instance of pulling her off the street, and putting her in an office for hours without legal representation. Ad's rights were trampled and she was bullied mercilessly. I'm not an attorney, but it seemed like the FBI went beyond questioning into kidnapping, imprisonment and entrapment. A good criminal defense attorney could have forced the FBI into throwing out any evidence collected from her being an informant, and had a harassment claim against the FBI, if not kidnapping and false imprisonment. Then there's the matter of pain and suffering, where Ad would be entitled to damages as a result of her digestion problems. She was in excellent health before the FBI got its claws in her. A good attorney could have saved her life, literally.

    The story was designed for Robyn to convince herself that the FBI is always in the right, no matter what. It's that kind of thinking that got Ad killed. It was said in the vein of Robyn justifying her mistreatment of Ad--not in sharing meaningful personal information with Ad.

    No moreso than Skip felt upset about Sal's death. The informants are not human beings in the eyes of the FBI agents.

    Haha. Well, Bobbie, Vincent, Sal, and Jimmy -- all ended up dead. The others were not obese.
     
  10. Uncle Miles

    Uncle Miles Wafting in and out of Forum

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ USA
    The guy whose last drink was Diet Fanta
     
  11. Big Jimbo

    Big Jimbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY
    Ade was scum, like pretty much every one else. Helping to cover up a murder in her club, getting meth for high schoolers Meadow and Hunter because “better from me than on the street”. Go tell Tony and Carmela that if you are so altruistic sbout getting narcotics for their teenager with a promising future.
     
  12. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    @GregM , I don't think we are going to agree at all about the feds and how they handle these things, so we can agree to disagree on that part of the convo, cool? :)

    Regarding the obese thing, it cracked me up when Vito told Larry that he was the natural next boss (this was when Tony was in a coma) because with the weight off, he was now a healthy man. Yes, because going from 390 to 290 means you are totally healthy now, LOL.
     
  13. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    Yeah, not to mention the whole part of his life he was keeping in the closet. As he'd soon find out, his fellow gangsters didn't take too kindly to that.

    I just have fun talking about Sopranos--it's great whether anyone agrees or disagrees with my posts. No issue either way.

    Geez, Ad was in a situation where she couldn't tell anyone about that murder. She would have gotten in as much trouble with Tony's crew as with the FBI, so she tried to just look the other way. As she told the Feds, she was unthinkingly opted to be nice to some patrons of her club on a very busy night and they committed murder in her office, which itself was more of a self-defense situation than an actual premeditated act of murder. What was she supposed to do in the confines of her life in the show? You're acting like she committed a planned murder. That just wasn't the case at all.

    Likewise, Ad didn't get drugs for Meadow and Hunter. She just pointed out to Christopher that if they didn't score with him, they could put themselves in danger trying to get it on the streets. They were set on getting jacked up on speed to study, but were otherwise pretty responsible, normal teens trying to get into good colleges. Maybe you forgot what teens are like, but they don't think they have anything to lose and they don't play by the rules. There are a few ways to look at it. Ad potentially saved their lives.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2021
  14. BeatleBruceMayer

    BeatleBruceMayer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    The waiter in Atlantic City that Chris and Paulie killed.
     
    Mr.Sean and g.z. like this.
  15. BeatleBruceMayer

    BeatleBruceMayer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I can't stand when I hear she was "innocent" or close to it. She was complicit.
     
  16. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Same here. I could talk Sopranos all day. :cool::cool:
     
  17. BeatleBruceMayer

    BeatleBruceMayer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Same here... and Seinfeld.
     
  18. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Throw Breaking Bad into that mix and that is my trilogy of shows I could talk about all day any day.
     
  19. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    By that logic, so was the FBI, the cops and pretty much everyone else in the show. You paint with too broad a brush and everyone gets it. In the confines of the show, Ad was as innocent and kindhearted as it gets--much more of an innocent spirit than the FBI agents who preyed on her, screwed up all their investigations and got all their informants killed.
     
  20. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    That was one of the weird things for me: If Skip really was convinced that Sal was with Tony on the Bevilaqua hit, why not just arrest Tony immediately for murder and put the pressure on Sal to testify? Sal is an actual eye witness to the murder and his choice would have been: flip and testify against Tony, or do 30 to life for selling H (which he was already facing prior to the Bevilaqua murder).

    Granted, they had to keep Tony out of prison for the sake of the show, but that was one of those things that never landed right for me.
     
  21. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    The problem was that the eyewitness who could place Tony at the scene with the "husky accomplice" realized he would be testifying against a mob boss and recanted his story. At that point, there was nothing to use to bring in Tony or pressure Sal, who rapidly vanished himself before Skip could lobby his superiors to proceed with the case (Skip's words again: "I think at this point it's time to consider Bonpensiero compost.") All of these SNAFUs seem implausible until you learn about real cases, like how Whitey Bulger was handled as an informant, all the while leaving a trail of bodies that goes beyond quantification. Fact is always stranger than fiction.
     
  22. Wildest cat from montana

    Wildest cat from montana Humble Reader Thread Starter

    Hey , he caused a scene.....bad mouthing Christopher.
     
  23. BeatleBruceMayer

    BeatleBruceMayer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I watched BB twice. Good, but not on my rewatch list. Entourage is third in my trilogy.
     
  24. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    No, no, I wasn't talking about the eyewitness who later realized that he didn't see what we all know didn't happen, but Sal himself. If Skip was certain that Sal was there and helped Tony killed Matthew, that should have sped up the process of building the case against Tony (this was still a bit time prior to Sal getting whacked). Sal was an eyewitness to Tony murdering someone.
     
  25. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    I don't get that. It would mean Sal would testify against himself, right? He wouldn't do that because the murder conviction is worse than the heroin conviction he was facing. He'd have to take the 5th.
     

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