Better Call Saul - Season 2 discussion

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by stereoptic, Jan 4, 2016.

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  1. A fairly strong opener. It was perfect until they reintroduced Pryce. That dude annoys me. Is he supposed to be that annoying, and is he supposed to seem like he's straight out of Fargo?

    I found it beyond interesting to Jimmy ended up taking the job that he went rogue to avoid. That was certainly an unexpected twist, and one that I felt was very true to life, given that most of us do not change overnight. He ended up doing it to keep Kim, didn't he? However, at the same time he made that choice he was fingering his pinky ring again.

    That ring seems to be like a religious talisman to Jimmy now. Jimmy's rosary. Then he flips the switch within minutes of arriving at his new job. It's all a test.

    Like Bob Odenkirk said in "Talking Bad," it's really not about when he becomes Saul, anymore. It's about the journey.

    Something really bad is going to happen to someone that Jimmy really loves.
     
  2. :love::love::love::love:
     
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  3. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    Well, thats what made breaking bad interesting too. take a normal guy, and see how he turns "bad". The shows are relatable because they take normal guys and show how they can , well, break bad. its not an overnight mwahaha type thing, its a gradual thing of getting screwed, and seeing how easy it is once you let some of the moral walls go down to go the next logical step.

    I think with Jimmy, that job he took is very sweet, he's an idiot NOT to take it, especially when he'll have the big case residuals coming in eventually. But the scene with Mike, when he's feeling screwed, I think he knows where his strengths lie, and it doesn't take much for him to stop "doing the right thing" just because it's supposedly the right thing.

    the baseball card theft thing cracked me up. what an idiot.
     
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  4. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    While I'm not a fan of Chris "No really, they're not paying me to say good stuff about the show" Hardwick on "Talking Dead", I now realize that a LOT (not all, but a lot) of what annoys me about "Talking Dead" is the guests and the subject matter itself (e.g. "The Walking Dead").

    "Talking Saul" still had annoying things (same douchey bumper music and inane trivia contests and Twitter reading, etc all cribbed from "Talking Dead"), but Odenkirk and Seehorn, as well as Gilligan and other showrunner dude, are about a hundred times better at speaking about their show and their characters than the folks that come through on "Talking Dead." It's probably one of the reasons why Andrew Lincoln rarely makes it to "Talking Dead"; there's not enough of import to talk about.

    I was pleasantly surprised that "Talking Saul" was pretty watchable. If you want to see a "Talking Dead" clone show go off the rails, watch the "Bates Motel" after-show they tried a couple times during, I believe, Season 2. Makes Chris Hardwick and "Talking Dead" seem like "Nightline" in comparison.
     
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  5. amoergosum

    amoergosum Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    >>>

     
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  6. Yet, in Breaking Bad, we can point to one moment in time where Walter White made the ultimate decision that turned all of the tables. That was the moment he was sitting outside of Jesse's house, while talking on the phone to Gretchen. He had the choice to either go inside and talk to Jesse about making meth, or take the money that was rightfully his. Walt chose Jesse, so in that moment it changed everything.

    Not so much with BCS.

    Now, we might look back and say, "Oh, such and such time was the tipping point," but so far, not single event has tipped him. Not Marco's death. Not the fall out with Chuck. Not even having all of that money in-hand, yet "Doing the right thing." Oh, Jimmy wishes he had taken the money, and he swears that he'll never do the right thing again, but I doubt that. Unlike Walter White, Jimmy "did the right thing," by taking the job in Santa Fe. Boom! Right off the bat! That's not to say, however, that Jimmy isn't going into the law firm in Santa Fe with a screw-you mindset; it might all be a scam; but at least outwardly, so far, Jimmy hasn't made a Walt-sitting-in-his-car decision, with those type of Walter White ramifications.
     
  7. Veltri

    Veltri ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪

    Location:
    Canada
    That switch also made me think it was a dream. I thought I'd seen that in his beauty parlor hot water tank office.
    I still kind of half expect him to wake up to an angry knock on the door, the owner yelling at him for turning off the power to the cucumber water tank, get kicked out, then take the job at the law firm.
     
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  8. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Well, in many ways Jimmy is a much more moralistic human than Walt.

    Also, there is a little thing called impending death. But really, in the end Walt said it himself "I didnt do it for you or my child--I did it because I wanted to".

    What makes us a little uneasy about Jimmy is that we have yet to know for certain that he is going to go full tilt bad. He is just a petty criminal now. Walt went there. Ultimately it wasnt that he became bad, the actions simply revealed who he already was. Thats why Mike hated Walt also. He despised Walters "character". Didnt like him as a person even.

    Will Jimmy be revealed to be just as bad? Time will tell. For now we can cheer for him to be successful and to show his brother and everyone else that he is a worthy person. But will there come a time when we see him as he really might be? And how much will we be willing to compromise in acceptance? Maybe we will change right along with him. Will our investment into Jimmy lead us to stay in his corner like it did with Walter? Because I know that I was still right there with Walter even when I found him less than a desirable human. Jesse stayed and so did I. And what about Kim? Will she be the shows Jesse kind of? She certainly showed that she has the potential to be a Bonnie to Jimmy's Clyde....

    So many ways this could go. And so many aspects of human behavior that we can see objectively and also know that is reflects on our own assessments of who we are when the beans start boiling...
     
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  9. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    As someone who finally bit the bullet a couple years ago and ended up loving "Breaking Bad" and binging the whole series in what seemed like only a couple weeks, I can say that one thing that speaks so much to the quality of "Better Call Saul" is that I don't really think about "Breaking Bad" while watching it, and I don't think at all about how this event or that event will "lead" to him "turning into Saul."

    Another random observation: It speaks to the quality of the show, both in its overall story and the writing of the specific episodes, that black and white footage of a guy working at a Cinnabon and taking out the trash could be truly a white-knuckle moment.
     
  10. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    For those who watched Talking Saul last night, it was really interesting and informative to hear Bob Odenkirk say that even he's learning about the character Saul/Jimmy as the show progresses. He says he learns his lines then breaks it down into how or what might lead Jimmy to do or say or act as he does. So, might point, is that the only people who know about Jimmy/Saul are Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould. I don't think there's any way we can say for certain anything about Jimmy/Saul unless it's already happened or is happening as we see it. We can try to predict where this show is going to go. This show has two very creative and hard working writers who hold that show literally in the hands. Those two guys are extremely good at what they do.
     
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  11. Hot Ptah

    Hot Ptah Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    I am an attorney and have been in law offices all over the nation, including some large, very successful firms. The law offices shown in this show in Santa Fe and Albuquerque are more luxurious and have more high end design elements than just about any offices I have ever seen, anywhere. That is one of the few things that do not ring true for me. Most law firms don't want to waste money on luxury stuff like that. The partners want to keep the cash instead.

    The offices are a great contrast to what we know Saul Goodman ends up with, in terms of office space. Maybe that is meant to be the point.

    Having been an attorney and then a partner in a law firm, it immediately occurred to me that Jimmy will never be able to fit into the structure and discipline of the Santa Fe law firm. The absolute need to sit his butt at his desk for ten hours every single day billing hours--I can't see Jimmy doing that. They will fire him soon. The HHM firm in Albuquerque probably would have given him a little more flexibility and leeway, just because of his long personal history with them. But a bunch of attorneys who don't know you--you have to produce every single day of the year, no breaks or time off.

    I wonder if Saul ultimately later gets caught by his pursuers in Omaha because of the clue that he scratched into the garbage room wall, "SG Was Here."

    I wonder why Jimmy did not go after the overweight mark at the pool, even though Kim did not join him. Did he really require the help of a second person to make the con work? Or did he decide that it was no fun without her? Or did he think that he wanted to be with her more than anything else and that he needed to take the Santa Fe job to make it happen because she was not going to join him in a life of cons? (That last possibility is credible to me, even though she told him that one was not connected to the other. To me, he could have believed that she would not want to be with him unless he had a respectable job and hard working life, no matter what she said. He had no other immediate way to make the respectable life happen quickly, other than to take the Santa Fe job).

    It occurs to me--is the event which pushes Jimmy over the edge into full blown Saul Goodman mode, the tragic death of Kim? That would explain why she is never in Breaking Bad.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  12. Veltri

    Veltri ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪

    Location:
    Canada
    I think that was just put in to contrast how small of a mark he makes now, compared to where he was before with all those tv ads.
     
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  13. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Does he have any real pursuers? My recollection was that he went into hiding assuming he would be hunted because Huell disappeared. Making his storyline even more tragic because he really didn't have to run.
     
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  14. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    I liked her a lot in the sadly departed Whitney...
     
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  15. sound chaser

    sound chaser Senior Member

    Location:
    North East UK.
    She's adorable, I'm hoping the relationship developes, we're a bit behind over here :(
     
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  16. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    I fell for her even before her role in this show. She played a lonely drunk woman in Whitney, and she was very impressive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  17. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    A good start. A better start to the season for me than the first episode of the series.

    I am so happy we get more time with Jimmy and Kim and a much slower metamorphosis into "Saul Goodman" than might have been planned. This is a fascinating journey through the human heart.
     
  18. Very well said. I'm in no hurry to get to Saul Goodman. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm going to love to see full-on Saul again; it just seems like there is so much fertile ground that can be covered, including...

    "Gene" the Cinnabon man.

    'Better Call Saul' Plans Episode in Post-'Breaking Bad' Era »

    And how about Gene's disgusted look on his face when he sat down on that crate by the dumpster? Good stuff! And then the janitor comes in several hours later and jams the door so easily as Gene storms off!
     
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  19. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    It's a good thing Franz Kafka isn't writing this or next episode Jimmy might wake up transformed into . . . Saul Goodman. ;)
     
  20. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    Love this show. I like they way the writers take their time to tell the stories that unfold in every episode.
     
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  21. amoergosum

    amoergosum Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
  22. DreadPikathulhu

    DreadPikathulhu Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I don't think Huell played into his disappearance at all. Last we saw him he was waiting in the hotel room. It's been a while since I saw BB but I think Saul had made many enemies in Albuquerque and had to flee.

    I'm convinced that Better Call Saul is going to end with something happening to Gene at the Cinnabon. Maybe a vengeful Huell will show up?
     
  23. Hot Ptah

    Hot Ptah Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    It would be good to go back to the end of Breaking Bad and figure out exactly why Saul thought he needed to flee. Does anyone specifically remember?
     
  24. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My memory is that Saul specifically mentioned Huell disappearing in the last episode he is in before he goes to the dis-appearer. I think he was talking to Walt at the car wash. Walt says something like, "no one is after you" and Saul replies, "Then where's Huell?"

    This is just from memory. I'm trying to find any reference to it online. Will get out the DVDs tonight if I can't....

    EDIT: Found this on IMDB: "Breaking Bad" To'hajiilee (2013) - Synopsis »
    Saul shows up at the car wash and tells Walt that Huell is missing. He's very concerned at what this might mean and is wearing a bullet proof vest.
     
  25. Hot Ptah

    Hot Ptah Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    I guess the question is, what does Saul think the disappearance of Huell means. Does it mean that the cartel is after him, that the FBI and/or DEA are after him, that all of them are after him, that someone else is after him.

    He was concerned, in the segment before Episode One, Season One, of "Better Call Saul", when a big white guy sat and looked at him in the Cinnabon.

    Googling "why did Saul have to go into hiding" brings up several websites in which people theorize about it, but no one comes to a definite conclusion.

    That could be part of "Better Call Saul", that Saul discovers in the end that he did not have to give up his law office in Albuquerque and move to Omaha at all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
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