Better Call Saul - Season Six Discussion

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by misterjones, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Especially knowing this is the last season, the things they are choosing to show us happen feel particularly 'what's the point?' to me in a way I would not be thinking if I didn't know they were running out the clock.
     
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  2. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Well, "it's a TV show; don't overthink it" isn't a mindset that I put much value on. Storytellers have to create worlds that obey both regular logic and their own logic. Not doing that is just various degrees of lazy. As I said, I don't mind what they did with Lalo and Werner's wife because there probably wasn't a quick or interesting way to build the "why" into it otherwise.
     
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  3. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    I mean, I don't think there was much about Lalo to make me think he'd choose to/be good at turning himself in a James Bondian international man of mystery for some insanely convoluted Rube Goldberg machine of getting back at Gus when seems there are many easier, less likely to not work, more characteristic ways to get back at Gus.
     
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  4. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Right, but if he knew she was OUT AT A BAR he could have just gone to the house and done whatever he needed to do without showing himself to her. I'm fine with saying that this wasn't consequential enough of a thing to do in a logical way because then the audience doesn't know the "why" but that still doesn't make it logical. It's not.
     
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  5. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Yeah - Gus just isn't an interesting enough character to be giving so much screen time. They've established his enigmatic ennui enough at this point.
     
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  6. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Yes, again especially with the "not much show left"---we already knew Gus was nervous and uneasy knowing Lalo was out there. That many minutes dedicated to it AGAIN (even with the oh jeez hard-to-follow thing where I guess he was hiding a gun so he'll need it in some future scenario? EVERYONE in this show is such a goddamn mastermind with such elaborate far-seeing plans that ALWAYS WORK LIKE A CHARM, it's a big maddening....especially with the shows dominant style of making its serious fans feel smart that "hey I ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THE THINGS WE ARE WATCHING ARE HAPPENING...." when dumdums like me just feel overworked.....

    The show seems to expect we are all as brilliant and meticulous as Mike Ermentraut in understanding how to set schemes in motion technically and emotionally. I admit I'm not.
     
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  7. Lonson

    Lonson Just a Lucky So-and-so

    I haven't figured out the Howard scheme completely. They've been so transparent that Howard could easily see Jimmy's fingerprints, and Kim's calling the meeting with Cliff made it snap into focus for Howard, and if he thought the boxing match might end it. . . well maybe he thought that it was that simple.

    But it's not. Jimmy and Kim have to have known that Howard would be onto them with such open and heavy-handed schemes. In Episode 1 they say that Cliff is really the target, so maybe Howard blaming Jimmy is actually part of their plan, to make him seem paranoid and somehow resemble Cliff's son in his drugged mindset and play on his need to rescue Howard by getting him help. . . which would discredit him. . . .

    Kim said in Episode 1 "it doesn't have to hold up in court, but. . . ." Which is telling. I think the plan is to have Cliff somehow bring Howard down because of his personal life. Just not entirely sure how this is going to happen.

    And. . . I think this will dovetail into the Lalo/Gus situation either via intersecting tails or. . .

    Damn @mpayan . . . . Now I'm doing the speculating thing which is the road to being wrong.
     
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  8. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    He knew her address and was probably watching her so he knew when she entered the bar and he decided to try that tactic (meet her and get to know her).
    If he had gone in to her abode while she was at the bar, there is no indicator of when she comes home.
    In the end he had a good in, but she forgets her phone and comes back anyway.
     
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  9. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Until this last episode, I completely forgot the goal was to settle Sandpiper! I thought they were just being mean to Howard for fun (as Saul was last season). No idea where this is going but it obviously has something to do with the judge too.
     
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  10. Lonson

    Lonson Just a Lucky So-and-so

    Yes. Maybe the goal is to make Howard so distasteful to the aged complainants in the case that they make such a stink that they press the judge for a new head lawyer, and Cliff comes on board . . . and in swoops Saul and Kim.

    Okay, since I said it, it's wrong.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
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  11. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My guess is Jimmy disguises himself as the judge (based on the lines about "less face to worry about") like he dressed up as Howard a few episodes ago. How this helps anything, I have no idea. But I've never guessed anything correctly about this show so I'd like to have figured out something on my own. :)
     
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  12. Lonson

    Lonson Just a Lucky So-and-so

    Good guess. Too bad it has to be wrong--those are the rules.
     
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  13. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    It's a good guess.
    Maybe he (as the judge) does some side chamber court talk with Clifford, I can't see him playing the judge in session and deciding something because that just won't work, if Saul could make something like that work it would be the ultimate scam, but I doubt that is how it goes.
    But the guess that Saul impersonates the judge for whatever shenanigan is very good.
     
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  14. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I could see the impersonator 'accidentally' running into Clifford and some info being passed between the two that is misleading and somehow hastens the closure of the case, one thing for sure is that we will watch this play out...
     
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  15. mpayan

    mpayan Forum Resident

    Never trust a poster with Gus Fring as an avatar :D

    As far as Howard and the boxing match, I dont think Howard expected it to end anything. He told the PI as much. It was more to have Jimmy tailed and get that going.

    What Kim and Jimmy's complete plan is? Im not sure.

    We do meet Cheryl (Howards wife) in the next episode I believe. So the scheme may touch Howards private life with the hooker thing. It has already been established that all is not well at the Hamilin Hacienda (I wonder if his house is painted Hamindigo blue?).

    They dont want Howard disbarred. They just want some sort of pressure on Howard to fork over the Sandpiper money. Whatever Kim and Jimmy are up to that is the ultimate goal. And by discrediting Howard that may speed the process up as Howard would have to expediate the settlement before his reputation affects the case outcome.


    ----------------------------------------------


    What I do believe the ultimate outcome will be is Kim throwing Jimmy under the bus. She has no real dirt on her hands. She schemes and Jimmy does the grifts. No one thinks of Kim as anything but an outstanding attorney with an upright moral code. Just like Walt is perceived as a meek high school chemistry teacher whom his boy thinks as a hero and his students give ovations to, so is Kim thought of as a good person helping the little guy who has a cancer in her life. Jimmy.

    But we, the audience, know better. We know the real Kim just as we knew the real Walter.

    The meeting with her former legal assistant shows this high misled regard people have for Kim. The meeting with Cliff and she has his support. Howard thinks Kim is being duped by Jimmy, but he would never guess her as the mastermind behind it all. Howard didnt say "I have a Jimmy and Kimmy problem" he just said Jimmy.

    On the other hand, the entire courthouse thinks Jimmy is a crooked evil scumbag basically. Francesca (Sauls former and soon to be secretary) when looking at Sauls disgusting new digs asked before anything else "Where is Miss Wexler?" which shows she respects Kim and thinks Jimmy is well kind of disgusting. Jimmy doesnt really have anyone that respects or trusts him. He is pretty low on the opinions list.

    All of this leads me to believe that though Kim may eventually be cornered in a place in which her license may be taken away she will do anything not to endanger that. Because there is one thing that her relationship with Jimmy doesnt trump: her ability to practice law and have the pro-bono dream.

    So if Kim does get cornered, Jimmy is the perfect (and only) fallguy in all of this. Then we will see the true Saul Goodman and his wrath.

    As Greg said earlier, Jimmy has been up against the best...

    His brother. And he outsmarted him in the end.

    If Kim screws Jimbo over...the monster she helped create...Saul Goodman...will be a force to be reckoned with. She doesnt want Saul Goodman against her. She as street smart as she thinks she is.

    "I finally made her an honest woman..."- Jimmy McGill

    Oh Jimmy if you could only read upside down clocks..


    Right now Jimmy is clueless and blinded by his puppydog affection and love for Kim. If and when she betrays that...oooo boy...vegence will be Sauls.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
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  16. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    What you are saying makes no sense. Finding out if she had a job would require only slightly more online effort than finding out where she lived. So if he had to "learn her patterns" as you say, well, this could easily have been figured out beforehand. And if, for some reason, the all-powerful Lalo somehow wasn't up to the simple task of getting this information, his subsequent actions do not indicate that he went to the bar to "learn her patterns" as you say but rather that he went there for the purpose of getting into her apartment *that night*. With her *in* it - so obviously he wasn't planning to stay long enough to perform an archeological expedition, but instead to do something relatively quick and quiet while she slept I mean, she didn't even give the information that she had to get up to go to work until the very last second. What would have happened if she invited him in? Would he have to decline and say "sorry, I can't - I have to get up for work. By the way, do you also have a job that you will be getting up and leaving the house for in the morning?" No, of course this wouldn't happen; and also, having a job to get up for is often not a barrier for people hooking up anyway, so the whole idea of the meeting was to potentially get in right then and there, not to "learn her patterns" so that he could do it later. Her being at the bar was all that was needed for him to be at her home right then and there and get whatever he needed. They only did it this way because they either couldn't otherwise figure out how to efficiently let the audience know where Lalo was and why he broke into someone's house and/or the wife character is needed to move a plot point forward and her having seen/met Lalo was necessary.
     
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  17. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Who knows, maybe they pull a stunt that casts a bad light on the judge the way they did with Howard, all aimed at Cliff for some reason...
    Up close and personal I think Cliff could spot Saul even with a big moustache, so there are a lot of variables as to how the impersonation of a judge could work -maybe the only way it can work is if he's up on the bench?

    I think this plot area is pretty vexing and hard to guess how it goes, but it seems to me the show runners have practically trademarked the long haul scam in as much as making guesses as to where it's going pretty fruitless.
    They know where this all goes and the interesting thing is the tease of learning more along the way -just enough to give a sense, but not enough to paint the whole picture, then the endgame is always a good payoff and a surprise.
     
  18. adm62

    adm62 Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    When I was watching that part I was intrigued, slightly worried for her and entertained. I wasn't thinking oh my god this is ridiculous that he is in Germany and he must know her address already. It is entertainment after all.

    All the nitpickers here seem to want to write a thesis about every scene. JUST SIT BACK AND ENJOY THE RIDE. It will be all over soon enough and many on this thread will need to find another TV show to complain about.
     
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  19. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Yes and we don't know how long Lalo has been in the area, but he simply chose to do whatever snooping he was going to do, in the most benign way possible, the bar thing could be a regular thing she does -or not, whichever it is it all is something for Lalo to take in and then calculate a move.
    Just like when he visited Travelwire and went up and through the ceiling, Lalo is a creature that thinks on his feet in the spur of the moment and forms a strategy.
    He survived an assassination attempt with that same skill.
    His game in Germany is the Lalo we know going after something he feels he needs, so if he's a little creative in how he gets it that is just true to the character as portrayed.
    He does have to tread lightly being who he is and where he's traveled to, when he digs up some more substantial evidence concerning the lab that Gus is building then maybe he will get impetuous.
     
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  20. riverclown

    riverclown Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Lalo has been shown to be good at detective work. He found her. Learned about her. Maybe followed her to the bar. He wanted to get info from her, through conversation, that would help him when he later searched her house. He learned from her that Werner's crew sent gifts instead of going to his funeral and that he'd called his crew "his boys". If not for that info he wouldn't have known the acrylic was relevant. It had the inscription in German for “Love … Your Boys". Now he knows where to go for more info - the co. that manufactured the item for "the boys".
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
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  21. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Close, they did it to form a scene that entertains and nudges the story along, and true to their rep the show runners present a very nice scene indeed.
     
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  22. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Thanks for that, duh.
    That is the strongest point of their meeting in the bar.
     
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  23. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I just had a connect the dots kind of revelation...
    So everyone seems to think that Jimmy wanted Howard to get wind of their hassling him .. so Jimmy must be assuming he has a tail on him now?
    Maybe the judge impersonation thing is to set up something for the PI to discover about the judge?

    In which case if it's true then maybe Kim disguises herself as Jimmy and Jimmy will be the judge.
    Or something like that...
     
  24. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    I think the PI would be able to tail Jimmy from the apartment or the courthouse just fine. Why they needed a boxing match I will never understand. And the fight wasn't even good!

    It's clear from the intro showing the mansion that the funds are disbursed--so something changes. In the past, Jimmy went directly to the elderly to exert pressure on the case. I guess that ship sailed and he can't do it again because he had to sacrifice his integrity with former clients.

    I don't see Kim like this at all. She is dedicated to practicing law without shenanigans and it is Jimmy's influence that has emboldened her to scheme against Kevin Wachtell and now Howard. More to the point. She has no future in BB and Saul does--a future that doesn't involve crawling out from under a bus. So if anyone gets thrown under, it's Kim thrown by Jimmy.

    Walter knew he was dying. It was a different dynamic. He was a lifelong underachiever who had to prove he could do something better than anyone else. Kim doesn't have any of these issues. She wants to scale down, not up.

    I don't see Kim as having a malicious bone in her body. She is ultimately inspired by the law and by helping people. She likes participating with Jimmy in the occasional scheme because he brings that out in her, and he needs a sidekick. Beyond Huell. She married Jimmy to supposedly save herself from having to testify against him, so it would be a 180 to then try to frame him.

    I just don't get this. How did Kim help create Saul? She was very uncomfortable with him practicing law under that name at the end of S4. Visibly shaken, in fact. Jimmy was stealing from his dad as a kid, taking down marks as an adult, and making questionable decisions in his legal practice from the beginning. Kim had nothing to do with Jimmy's ethical morass.
     
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  25. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    "Do you want to be the cartel's friend? Or do you want to be a rat?" That cruel tease away from his actually extricating himself for a deeper life of crime in and of itself makes her a very high candidate on the list of those who created the Saul we meet in BB.

    While the show alas has chosen to never SHOW us why beyond showing it happening, something in Kim W just wants to be BAD. Tho a perhaps even larger part wants to do good---and the latter part so far has likely convinced herself that the former part is OK since it's in service of the latter.
     
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