Better Call Saul - All Things Discussion*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by misterjones, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. AKA

    AKA Senior Member

    https://twitter.com/davidcrosss/status/1421164595629248515

     
  2. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    As thoroughly? Kim, Nacho and Lalo weren't covered at all. So if you're going to make a show about new characters, why the borrowed interest? Develop a character that has a story worth telling, like Walter White, and make a show. That's how BB became a success.

    There was only one story worth telling in BB: Walter White's. The other characters, the subplots, were set up to tell his story.

    If you're top notch attorney, you don't end up in New Mexico. Chuck was billed as a top-notch attorney, so...
     
  3. AKA

    AKA Senior Member

    https://twitter.com/mrbobodenkirk/status/1421195860466089991

     
  4. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Billed by whom? A top notch attorney in his field in New Mexico, perhaps, but who billed him as a top notch attorney deserving of national prominence . . . not that New York and Los Angeles are the repository of the best attorneys? Believe me, I've been a mediocre lawyer in a city filled to the brim with mediocre lawyers for thirty years. And I've met numerous excellent and highly successful lawyers who have lived and practiced in places far removed from New York City and/or Los Angeles.

    And why are we debating such matters? Must every character live in the most appropriate place, say the most perfectly plausible things, and react every time in absolutely the most believable manner at each and every turn? If he or she did, I'd say that would be the most unrealistic scenario.

    BTW, as long as we're fixated on such minutiae, where did Chuck grow up and go to undergraduate and law school? Was that indicated in any of the episodes?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
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  5. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
  6. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I think we're getting off on a tangent. My original point is that Jimmy and Chuck, the centerpiece of the show, didn't NEED to be in New Mexico tied into the BB world whatsoever for a variety of reasons. I touched on several of those reasons. NY and LA were just two ideas. Gilligan also had a hit show based in DC. But to answer your question "billed by whom" it was actually Richard Schweikart, heading up the lawyers representing Sandpiper, who talked Chuck up as having an expectation of him arguing cases for the supreme court. And in typical Chuck fashion, he didn't even respond to that, but laid down a $20 million gauntlet to settle the case later in the conversation.

    I'm just holding the show to the rules it makes for its own characters. It breaks those rules as fast as it makes them.
     
  7. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Planetary Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    Well, I'm thankful for that much on this sunny Friday afternoon.
     
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  8. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Bob Odenkirk tweeted he had a small heart attack.. but he’ll be back soon. :goodie:
     
  9. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Started rewatching BCS .. most be my third time. Love the first two seasons now.
    Think I’ve come to the conclusion it’s better than BB. Yikes! :yikes:I’ve said it.
     
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  10. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I requested season 1 from the library. I think I’ll rewatch at least seasons 1-3.
     
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  11. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Agreed. The Jimmy/Chuck dynamic was the best part of the show. I get that Chuck had to depart at some point in order to help Jimmy get to being Saul, but his departure has been hard to overcome.

    Once this series is over, I will likely go back and binge the whole thing from start to finish, with the hope that that will help me appreciate it a lot more, as even at its best I never thought it was anything more than a good show. Not even close to BB-quality, and the BB connection is the only reason I have stuck with it, as I am invested at this point.
     
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  12. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Not seen anybody mention the special features / blu ray. Really interesting interview with Jonathan Banks and Mark Margolis.
     
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  13. adm62

    adm62 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Glad he seems to be ok, expect there will be a break in filming of at least a month as he will begin his hopefully full recovery.
     
  14. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Will they film around him ?
     
  15. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    Of course Kim and Lalo weren't covered I was referring to the BB characters that have been carried over.
    Yes it centered all around Walter and was unique in that no character or plot was a waste of time.
    As for Chuck it's a tv show so everything won't be based on absolute reality. Maybe that's where he could work his way up faster, and he stayed for partnership. Once his issues took over he couldn't leave.
    However I'd imagine there could be top attorneys in all parts of the country. No matter his character is long gone.
    Clearly Gilligan wanted to ride the wave of BB and finish certainly aspects and introduce others, his vision.. you have option to tune out.
    Anyway I'm surprised to see some posters think it was better than BB, do many rewatches.
    I did rewatch 5 and some of 4 as a refresher but I don't think I could sit thru 1-3 again. For me just too much slow developments and I think the series could of been wrapped up in 4 seasons if they didn't draw out so much of Jimmy's past.
    The scenes of Mike and ex daughter in law don't ring true to me . Not sure if it's her weak acting , or just don't care about all that past stuff about Mike.
    BB had a way of editing itself in a way I've never seen in other great shows, gave you no more than you need and you could draw your own conclusions.
    So many powerful, but short segments with Mike that told you a lot about his character.
    I know it was a different world in this show to some extent but felt it could of been wrapped up tighter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  16. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Again, we’re generally on the same page. I agree especially about Mike and his former daughter-in-law. I haven’t given it a lot of thought as I’ve essentially treated it as something I have to endure to get to the more interesting aspects of the show.
     
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  17. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Planetary Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    I hadn't seen any of the BCS episodes since they aired week to week on TV, before my rewatch of S1-4 during lockdown last year (S5 had just ended so I didn't rewatch that yet).

    I had forgotten a lot of the little details and grace notes they do with the characters. I've come to the conclusion that it's a superb show. It moves slower than your usual action dramas and is not for all tastes. I can't compare it to BB besides it's from the same team, same setting and some same characters. It's quite different.

    A lot of aspects that seemed like they dragged out too long week to week I thought were better on a binge watch--maybe you'll find the same thing.
     
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  18. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    That is what I am hoping. It is a slow moving show and I do think the slow pace will work better on a binge.

    I do think as well that some things are better left to the imagination. The whole "let's show how the super lab we saw in BB came together" storyline I didn't find necessary at all, although I get the point of it from the standpoint of Mike's character growth, as well as how the relationship between Mike and Gus was solidified. On the flip side, I did like how they showed how Tio ended up in a wheelchair with a bell.
     
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  19. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    I think that's true probably of a lot of shows on a binge watch. I know when I did that for Mad Men, their weakest season 5, was still that but not as arduous to watch , and I could see more of finer points of 6, 7 less compelling episodes.
     
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  20. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    Totally agree with this. Same for some of those old Jimmy schemes or current ones he was working on. I think after we saw one or two old ones it was enough. I can't recall much of these storylines but also didn't like when they showed too much of the characters he was going to scam.
     
  21. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Can't disagree with much of that, but it misses the overarching point I'm making about the possibility of a superior, original show in Gilligan's grasp if he ever can leave the BB world behind and put it to bed already. You seem to think BB is the best show ever and it's impossible to produce anything better, so why try? Personally I think other shows were better, e.g., Sopranos, and I would admire Gilligan more if he could leapfrog them. I think he has the talent. But he can only do it if he stops this borrowed interest stuff--and I sometimes wish he had stopped it before producing BCS. That's my take. But yeah, I recognize that ship sailed five seasons ago, so I may as well stop belaboring the issue. I do enjoy the show a lot.
     
  22. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    I've seen each season several times now and feel this way as well.
     
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  23. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    [QUOTE="GregM, post: 27448369, member: 68]
    You seem to think BB is the best show ever and it's impossible to produce anything better, so why try? Personally I think other shows were better, e.g., Sopranos, and I would admire Gilligan more if he could leapfrog them. I think he has the talent. But he can only do it if he stops this borrowed interest stuff--and I sometimes wish he had stopped it before producing BCS.[/QUOTE]
    BB was best for me but doesn't mean something couldn't come along and be better. Edge of your seat stuff, great acting, writing, cinematography.
    I did watch Sopranos and it was huge for many reasons I just think it was uneven. Imo first two seasons great , 3rd too focused on the kids, his sister and horrible Richie April. Then 4th was kind of a mess, perhaps parts of 3 and 4 could of been fused to be one stronger season, and end series in 4 or 5 seasons.
    I loved Mad Men even though after 4 seasons it wasn't always so good, it was similar to a novel, with the nuances of characters slowly unfolding in front of your eyes. I thought True Detective season 1 was outstanding.
    Maybe Gilligan will do something after this very worthwhile. I did think El Camino was pointless, at least there was enough story to tell with BCS.
    It's probably difficult for writers/creators to turn down the tremendous financial benefits , acclaim of reviving proven ideas. But I think he really seemed to love the characters and exploring them further.
    Looking forward to seeing how he concludes the saga.
     
  24. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    You have to ask, was Better Call Saul a story about how Saul became an important character in the Breaking Bad opera...or, was it to tell a good story involving compelling characters, that just set up the conditions in Breaking Bad? I'd have to go with the latter. If there's enough in that saga to exist on its' own without Walter White even being necessary to make that story worth it...you done good.

    Smallville, whatever you think of the series, was actually created under the condition, that Superboy as "SuperboyTM", wasn't even allowed to be in it. An exercise in crafting a satisfactory prequel, without actually relying on the central reason for the franchise itself.
     
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  25. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Well said. I liked Sopranos a lot more. I'd like to believe it was due to discipline in the writing--as I've said in other threads Chase would hold the writers to higher standards and force rewrites as a matter of policy. To me, Gilligan has always had a more permissive and whimsical approach to the writing, but I could be fooling myself. It could come down to the fact that I'm originally a New Yorker and relate to how those characters act. I started my career in New Jersey, hung out with people who talked and acted like those depicted in Sopranos, and it hits closer to home than the New Mexico landscape that Gilligan creates, which I enjoy watching but can't relate to in terms of personal experience. Once Matt Weiner got involved in Sopranos, I think the show took on an added spiritual dimension. As you mention, his Mad Men is also a masterpiece. I enjoyed every minute of every season. Never got into True Detective, but maybe I should try again.

    For sure, BB and BCS are incredible shows, and I'll eagerly follow anything Gilligan/Gould do after season 6 wraps. If it's in the BB world, I'll still wish they had challenged themselves to move on, but so be it. I'll still tune in and enjoy it for what it is.
     
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