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Better Call Saul - Season Six Discussion

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by misterjones, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    There needs to be a zen to it; there needs to be a balance instead of whiplash. If your story is worth telling you should be able to tell it in a compelling way that doesnt reek of manipulation. That's the difference between good writing and bad writing.

    Breaking Bad was worth telling without the gimmicks and whiplash. All the elements were there. The writers just needed a little more discipline and hard work, I thought.
     
  2. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    Breaking Bad writers took more great pains than I've ever seen in creating a compelling and mostly realistic story.
    However if you have 100 % realism that doesn't always make for the best entertainment . It just seems like repeating the same points though, griping about a show that's long over, that so many loved on a thread for it's prequel doesn't make much sense.
    Skylar was put in an impossible situation so it makes sense she might fluctuate , knowing what she's doing is illegal and morally wrong but yet feeling there was no choice. I didn't find her behavior problematic but maybe they didn't need to involve her as much in it. Jesse was smarter probably than he gave himself credit for but nobody believed in him so it makes sense he's wracked with self doubt until the moment he has no choice but to deliver.
    Who could really say what anyone would do in such unbelievable circumstances?! I normally thought their reactions really fit the situations.
    But this thread is for BCS which let's face it like it or not does not exist without its predecessor.
    I finished the rewatch and the last 3 episodes of 5 are probably the very best of the show. (As far as stepping away from the ones that were firmly set in the Jimmy McGill world)
    The cinematography , the moments between Jimmy and Mike, Lalo and Jimmy, Lalo and Nacho are terrific.
    The Bagman episode and the season finale are absolutely BB level to me.
    Some thoughts in viewing these again (and I had seen these three a second time after it first aired )
    Kim went to see Lalo out of concern for Jimmy and stepped in to save him on their apartment so besides getting back at Saul for lying about the ambush , thinking he was in on it ( why would he be he was traumatized and brought money back ?) Lalo has much bigger concerns than her.
    He will strike against Gus and crew ofcourse and Nacho. We know Gus and his main guys are alive in the future so no idea what will occur.
    I believe Mike will help Nacho get out with his Father. Will Gus do anything for Nacho ? Possibly.
    Jimmy almost tells Kim it's over in the hotel room they stay at , but she ignores it . Then they bond again plotting against Howard. He tries to tell her no , it's not you so does she do it on her own? Or does he break it off with her to protect her , or purposely do something so she ends it?
    Those are the only things I can see happening now.
     
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  3. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Andover, MA
    I had forgotten the intensity of the scene I posted above where Kim yells at Howard. It's as though she has a personal vendetta against Howard. The plot to get Howard seems excessive until you watch that scene again.

    The scene where she walks home (three miles) as a child, backpack and cello in tow, when her drunk mother is late makes more sense if you see it as illustrating how Kim is willing to go her own way (doing what she thinks is right) regardless of how difficult she's making it for herself.
     
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  4. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    That's true about her scene with Howard .. it was pretty bad how she laughed about Jimmy's terrible antics towards him. So is it Kim who mostly played it straight resents those in power positions or doesn't like to be told what to do with her personal descisions ?
    Re when she got upset with Jimmy for telling her to reconsider leaving Schweiker. She wasn't even there that long and went in as partner.. but then again she stays with Jimmy even after all the stuff he's pulled and continues to get involved with so her choices are increasingly not good ones . Chuck was right in a way that he can't help himself and will keep hurting people . Ultimately he wants to get power for himself and more money so he ignores all else.
     
  5. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    Agreed that we're watching to be entertained but mostly realistic? 100% realism? BB and BCS is not that. Maybe 10%--that's being generous. Not one character is realistic, and as I keep pointing out and you keep ignoring, the way they can whiplash from one episode to the next purely for audience manipulation is just not at all how real people behave. BB and BCS are great shows and some of the family dynamics, e.g., between Chuck and Jimmy, are informed by real family dynamics many people experience. But it's not mostly realistic.

    You don't think it's morally wrong to smoke during pregnancy given what we know about the increased risk of birth defects? Not problematic to portray Skyler as dedicated to her kids one episode and then pawning them off on a couple who had no experience taking care of kids the next episode? I agree with what you say about Jesse, but the setup and love/hate relationship with Walt didn't need to be so manipulative. One episode he's fistfighting Walt into submission on the living room floor and tells him to never come to the house again under threat of death. The next episode he's agreeing to kill Gus for Walt. It's just too much see-sawing purely for audience manipulation.

    Agree--minus Walt's world, it's basically BB at this point. That is not what I loved about BCS and I'm beating a dead horse but I feel it could have been much more without dovetailing with BB. Still one of the greatest shows on TV.

    Good question. If we factor in how much Gould/Gilligan love to seesaw the characters, Gus could indeed possibly help Nacho and his father. Up until now Gus has been cold as ice toward Nacho and uncaring about the plight of his father. So it would only make sense that we're being manipulated to be awestruck by some plot twist based on how this show operates. As for Lalo, I just don't get the need for this character except to act as a foil to Mike and Gus--and to entangle Jimmy and Kim too, at this point. Since Kim and Lalo will need to exit, it makes me wonder if their paths are now entertwined.

    I don't think it will be anything so logical or foreseeable.

    It is a bit odd to see Kim so hateful toward Howard after years of sucking up to him and being afraid to disappoint him. Howard finally stood up to Chuck and pushed him out, only to become racked with guilt and feeling sorry for himself in the aftermath of Chuck's death. After the first half of BB, building Howard up to be the most powerful figure in holding down Jimmy and Kim, true to form Gilligan/Gould have flipped the script and made Howard appear weak and desparate.

    Excellent point. I've long thought that the show will end in an unsettling way that proves Chuck's words about Jimmy and make all us viewers who love him feel like we're being taught some sort of profound lesson. But given my horrible track record in predicting this, Jimmy could end on a positive note, doing something selfless in a way Chuck never could understand. Who knows. It'll either be one extreme or the other, I think.
     
  6. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    You are entitled to your view and I'm entitled to mine, no point to debate it.
    People can be complex as the characters can be so you can't put them in a box saying you are this so you would never do this .. and that really takes the joy out of watching it.
    Howard showed a public face of assurance but that didn't mean he wasn't struggling with other things , as nepotism was brought up and that he wasn't even a good lawyer .. ultimately we knew he didn't like treating Jimmy badly that came from Chuck.
    But what we know of Jimmy it's most likely he would of blown up his chance at HHM anyway as he's turned off by corporate cultural.
    I'm pretty sure anyone watching doesn't feel they shouldn't have done the show, we knew what it would be going in, don't like it, ignore it.
    As for Gus he is cold but we saw him be fair mostly in BB so it could be Mike talks him in to letting Nacho go or he outlived his usefulness.
    Maybe Jimmy's grand gesture will be cutting Kim loose for her own good or he simply goes even further to the bad side somehow as we know Saul to be .
    I can't imagine that many moves left to make with him as we have to see Gene in at least last episode unless there's so little they'll show of him.
     
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  7. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Hope Nacho survives like Pinkman.. maybe the team up in a continuity story along with Saul Goodman.
     
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  8. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    What is the actual timeline with BB/BCS..El Camino- A Breaking Bad movie?
     
  9. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    No disrespect to anyone, but I am tapping out of this convo for now. Dissecting the shows to the tiniest degree does feel like a bit of joy-sucking. To anyone who wants to continue to do so, have at it, but I have lost interest in dialoguing about it any further at this time. :)
     
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  10. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    That’s a pity.
     
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  11. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    It starts right after the conclusion of BB, when Jesse drives off the hideout where he was enslaved as a cook for Jack Welker's crew at Todd's insistence. There is an extended flashback that shows Todd taking Jesse on a road trip while he was still a prisoner, to explain why Jesse is trying to get to the apartment complex. This flashback would have been the timeframe of Walt being in hiding on the east coast, which lasted a few months.
     
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  12. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    No the actual timeline.. basically early 2000s with mobile phones trackers technology ?
    With Saul /Jimmy /Gene Cinnabon setting would be around (what ) 2013?
     
  13. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Andover, MA
    Yes, but it is possible to "ignore" some of the more egregious elements (as I have done). Certainly rejoin us no later than when they have a date certain for broadcast.

    I certainly enjoy the theories about what's to come in season six (based on what has transpired in earlier seasons, even if that requires re-watching previous episodes). But the purpose of this thread (IMO, as the thread starter or even merely as a thread participant) is not to bash the series, especially if the upshot is argument about how the series should have played out ab initio, or to opine on how much better Breaking Bad and/or the Sopranos was. Perhaps those interested in the latter should start a thread called Why the Sopranos is the Greatest TV Series of All Time and Was Much Better Than Better Call Saul. I note, however, that such a thread likely would violate - and arguably certain posts here have violated - the following rule of forum conduct: "Negativity: posts denouncing, ridiculing or expressing hate towards the topic being discussed." There's no rule against joy-sucking, but maybe there should be.
     
  14. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    Think BB was early 2000's and didn't it all happen within a year or so because of Walt's diagnosis ? Read on another thread BCS was said to be 5 years earlier.
    Not sure how far they advanced the Gene storyline, guess we will see something to indicate that.
    I tried to put posts directly related to prior seasons on those threads unless it would somehow apply to theories of the last season. So we can put side topics like other shows to rest let's keep this thread relating to BCS season 6 ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  15. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Let’s”?
    Fair enough. Find it all so engrossing. With BCS..there’s going to be at least another year of continued speculation.
     
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  16. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    If you look up timeline denofgeek.com has a breakdown , sorry don't have link at the moment..
     
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  17. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Andover, MA
    I think it's helpful, however, to point out aspects of previous seasons - especially if you are re-watching earlier seasons - that might illuminate what might happen in season 6. I certainly could use a refresher or three.
     
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  18. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Andover, MA
    And you can sleep easy knowing we all will be 100% wrong in our predictions.
     
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  19. tdcrjeff

    tdcrjeff Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hermosa Beach, CA
  20. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    I think only 4,5 have open threads still anyway.
     
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  21. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Thx GMfan87’.
    Fascinating stuff.
     
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  22. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    This is Season 6 thread. And the season won’t start till next year. Hence “ Discussion “ I guess.
     
  23. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    Yes I meant comments about those seasons can't be added to their threads any longer.
     
  24. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    BB took exactly two years of time (on the show, not in real time).

    The pilot had them celebrating Walt's 50th birthday, and the final events in the series finale happened on Walt's 52nd birthday.

    The vast majority of the series did take place in less than a year, though, as Walt did not turn 51 until season 6a.
     
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  25. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Andover, MA
    Wow! I essentially binge-watched BB in a matter of months, and it seemed like the series covered much more time than that.
     
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