Better Call Saul - Season Six Discussion

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by misterjones, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. bloodisthin

    bloodisthin And after all, we're only ordinary men

    Location:
    Australia
    It's quite minor in the grand scheme of things, but I appreciated hearing (from Francesca) that Huell got off totally scot-free and returned home to New Orleans, because Hank & Gomez held him under false pretences when they went off on their doomed mission to capture Walt.
     
  2. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Was that gas station the same one in “Green Light,” in BB, where Hank thinks he’s found the ATM cam footage of Heisenberg? I A/B’ed it, and the branding of the station in BB looked different, but they looked pretty similar on first glance.
     
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  3. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    I picked the first film that popped into my head. It was a one line comment with a smiley face, not a dissertation. :) You are free to be as flummoxed as you wish. Personally I didn’t find it to be such an uncommon device. Information is portioned out to the audience as writers see fit. Always has been. You’ve enjoyed the show for 6 seasons, trust the process. :)
     
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  4. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Late to the game here. Just finished watching Monday’s episode. I say Kim couldn’t take being hounded by the authorities and killed herself. Gene is doing what he likes to do, which is live on the edge. This time he doesn’t care if he gets caught. He ends up dead, as well. Not sure how Carol Burnett fits in.
     
  5. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    Jeez I hope not. The show would have been one of the most pointless debbie downers ever created for TV. Jimmy, Kim and Chuck die? Why even create the show?
     
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  6. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    I think dramatically I'd like to see Kim survive Jimmy, if indeed he goes, to contemplate the aftermath and all that---a little like how Jesse survived BB in a way though less harrowing I guess.
     
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  7. bloodisthin

    bloodisthin And after all, we're only ordinary men

    Location:
    Australia
    I don't see Kim dying, not after all this time - in the Nebraska timeline it's been a good six years since she walked away from Jimmy. That said, I wouldn't put anything past these writers. I expect we'll have our answer in the next two episodes - which, by the way, are respectively written solo by Gilligan & Gould. I'm expecting some strong meat.

    As for Carol Burnett, I'm in the camp that believes Marion will be the one to bring down Jimmy/Saul/Gene - after she saw what was happening outside her window late at night, she probably smells a rat. And now she has a computer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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  8. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    But how long has it been since anyone had an update on Kim? Could she have killed herself or been arrested or whatever years earlier?
     
  9. bloodisthin

    bloodisthin And after all, we're only ordinary men

    Location:
    Australia
    According to the Better Call Saul timeline, Walter White died on September 7, 2010. Francesca calls Gene on November 12, 2010. Among other things, she reveals (right before unceremoniously hanging up on Gene) that Kim had called to check up on her and Saul after Walter died. So there's been a reasonably recent update.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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  10. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    We should remember we have zero knowledge or even serious clue about the nature, if any, of Kim and Jimmy's relationship between her quitting bar and leaving him and the Francesca phone call. Well, two clues: she called to check up on him after he disappeared, and he knows a number to reach her out, presumably (or definitively?) a place of employment. But that could cover a wide range, including divorce bitter or civil (or something better, or something worse).
     
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  11. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Planetary Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    I think as an audience we are invested enough in Kim & Jimmy as a couple that we need some kind of closure.

    I like the idea that the only way she’ll see him again is if he turns himself in. That would make him mad enough to trash the phone booth. That would make him reckless enough to get caught. That would fit into this show’s nature of crime and punishment as a backdrop.
     
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  12. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    Hmmm Im not sure. Have to look.
     
  13. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    More of my bloated free thought...


    "Gene Did The Monster Mash..."

    "Light, feeling and sense will pass away; and in this condition must I find my happiness. Some years ago, when the first images which this world affords first opened upon me, when I felt the cheering warmth of summer, and heard the rustling of the leaves and the chirping of the birds, and these were all to me, I should have wept to die; now it is my only consolation. Polluted by crimes, and torn by the bitterest remorse, where can I find rest but in death?...."-The Monster Frankenstein (Mary Shelley)

    Been thinking about what this last episode could mean as far as this idea that Gene is evil on a whole different level. And how he got there. And just who are we dealing with now? Have we been seeing him all along?

    Some say he is going back to Slippin Jimmy. Or even Saul. But I dont think so. We have a different character level here...

    Gene doesnt even enjoy the scam now. And is able to simply say "Ive known bad guys to have cancer"as if dismissing any empathy or sympathy for the man Hard, cold and callused.

    Buddy tells him he wont go through with it. Basically it is too far a bridge morally for him. Doesnt mean much to our man Gene though. He has reached another level of low.

    Additionally, Jeff's friend points out that they've all made plenty of cash, enough to release this catch. He's even removed the tape from the lock. The sick man would never know what could have happened.

    This is the "Better Call Saul" version of Skyler White's "How much is enough? How big does this pile have to be?" moment.

    So another parallel to Gene being like Walter.

    Its never enough.

    More evidence that this guy is a monster.

    ...continued...
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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  14. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    But getting back to who is Gene exactly...who is this evil fellow that is before us now?

    "The Creator and The Creation.."

    Some references that tie this monster idea together:

    Saul in the Krystal Ship as he says "It looks like James Wells traveling road show in here".
    James Wells directed the 1931 movie "Frankenstein". Saul calling Jesse, Igor. Saul referencing Mike as looking like Frankenstein.

    Saul talking about Walt to Mike...

    "You see an amature, I see 170 lbs of clay ready to be molded" The story of the Golem. Golem is the name for an animated anthropomorphic being that is created entirely from inanimate matter, usually clay or mud.

    Molded by man not God.

    As was Frankenstein. Of course Gene is human as was Walt..even so you get the idea.

    A theme develops...this monster theme..

    Taken as whole we can see that Jimmy has been a person who is pieced together in his three forms that now end up as this creature we now behold. The Jimmy/Saul/Gene Frankenstein.

    The creature.

    But who is the creator?..

    "Viktor" Frankenstein anyone? ....a reference to both the creator of Frankenstein in the book and to "Viktor" of BCS.

    This man is the sum of all his parts. We expected him to turn into Saul. But as Greg has said..he has always been Saul.

    And to take that further..

    He has always been Jimmy. He has always been Gene.

    And now he is this trinity of a monsterous distortion of all three personages. The lightning bolt of the phone call the life giver.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Wow, who knew they had to completely rebuild Walter White's mobile meth lab from scratch?

    How 'Better Call Saul' Recreated the 'Breaking Bad' RV and More - Variety

    Kim got out of Albuquerque long before Jimmy/Saul got into illegal activity (at least, that the Feds know about), so even if they hunted her down, she could truthfully say, "I thought that Saul was going down a dark path, and so I divorced him and left town to start a new life."
     
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  16. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    further ramblings...

    "The Creator"...

    It really happened from the beginning. "Viktor" (symbolic mirroring) creates this monster who at first is easy going and curious.

    Wanting to fit in. Jimmy. Viktor playing with the innocent scam also.

    Sound familiar? just like the Frankenstein monster was curious and wanted to fit in.

    Jimmy teaches himself the law at HHM to fit in. Jimmy was trying to learn and trying to to be a part. He was trying to stay on the right path by observing and mimicking. Just as Frankenstein was observing and mimicking.

    Chuck is also a part in this monsterous creation. He helped create Jimmy in some ways. And Chuck is also like the blind man that the monster Frankenstein runs into. The darkness of Chuck's home and the cabin-like atmosphere.

    The rejection that keeps pushing the monster with torches and pitchforks in the first 3 seasons...?

    Chuck

    Chuck is the pitchfork and torch carrier that drives the kinder monster out. Jimmy is also like Frankenstein the monster rejected by Kim as this ugly thing when she left him finally. He is poison to her. The monster abandoned and left to his own devices. And ultimately the rage comes out at the phonebooth as Gene.

    The monster that was trying to learn trying to do right trying to fit in with society is rejected and everything burned at the stake.

    It helps us to understand how Gene must be feeling at this point.

    He tries but the monster busts out. The monster keeps crashing further and further more and more. He is in a state of confusion ultimately as he rampages on his scams as Gene. As his pounding feet run through to destroy all. Kicking glass out, pounding the phone.

    But really who is the real Viktor Frankenstein here?

    Who is the creator?

    Who is responsible?

    Chuck? Kim? Walter?

    No, ultimately it is the Viktor at the bar scams that is responsible for the putting together of this monster. The symbolic Viktor Frankenstein.

    Jimmy McGill himself.

    Both the creator and the creation.

    Of course at the same time each person in Jimmy's circle influences the other. Human nature is not so easily pigeonholed.

    Chuck is Chuck due to Jimmy's influence and Jimmy is Jimmy because of Chuck. Just as Kim said..."together we are bad" they poison each other. Mutually assured destruction. The Zues and Athena. Both creating each other. Athena fully formed from Zues. And yet Zues influenced. Athena springing from Zeus' head just as we saw in Saul's masion in the wall paintings. And with Gene and Kim certainly the climax of that was Gene destroying the phonebooth. He was M.A.D. Frankenstein let loose.

    And just as Viktor realized in the end of Frankenstein everyones death was his fault due to creating the monster, using forces that are against nature and did not take responisibility for the monster, maybe the bar scamming Viktor finally realizes that he is responsible for creating the monster that Gene is. Jimmy McGill..the creator of the monster and the created monster.

    "You sir have meddled with the primal forces of nature!"

    This earliest movie reference may very well be a self-prophecy as "Viktor" the scammer representing the creator of Viktor/Jimmy/Saul/Gene the creation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  17. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    and lastly...

    The man, whoever you want to call him, is both creator and the sum of Jimmy/Saul/Gene. The creation.

    It ends with sadness and regret for Viktor Frankenstein. As is will for our Viktor in BCS.

    "I created a rational being and with that came the responsiblity of his happiness and well-being, which I did not fulfill"

    -says Viktor Frankenstein in the book as a summation.

    And as in "Ozymandias" the goals and expectations achieved ended up to be nothing. No money, no career, no Kim...nothing beyond despair..

    "My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
    Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    Nothing beside remains.
    Round the decay
    Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away."

    "The Beauty and The Beast"...

    But who is connected to Gene more than anyone now?

    Kim

    And she may feel she helped create this mess. She encouraged the Saul. Is she responsible to fix Gene? No.

    But it could be she is feeling like Viktor Frankenstein also. Feeling responsible for creating the monster to a degree. And will once again try and come to Jimmy and make things better. The "responsiblity of his happiness and well-being, which I did not fulfill" as Viktor Frankenstein says.

    Is this how we see Kim again? Maybe.



    "Farewell! I leave you, and in you the last of human kind whom these eyes will ever behold. Farewell, Frankenstein! If thou wert yet alive, and yet cherished a desire of revenge against me, it would be better satiated in my life than in my destruction. But it was not so; thou didst seek my extinction, that I might not cause greater wretchedness; and if yet, in some mode unknown to me, thou hast not yet ceased to think and feel, thou desirest not my life for my own misery. Blasted as thou wert, my agony was still superior to thine; for the bitter sting of remorse may not cease to rankle in my wounds until death shall close them for ever. "But soon," he cried, with sad and solemn enthusiasm, "I shall die, and what I now feel be no longer felt. Soon these burning miseries will be extinct. I shall ascend my funeral pile triumphantly, and exult in the agony of the torturing flames. The light of that conflagration will fade away; my ashes will be swept into the sea by the winds. My spirit will sleep in peace; or if it thinks, it will not surely think thus. Farewell."

    He sprung from the cabin-window, as he said this, upon the ice-raft which lay close to the vessel. He was soon borne away by the waves, and lost in darkness and distance..."

    (The Monster Frankenstein-Mary Shelly)


    We did the mash we did the Monster mash...We did the mash, it is an attorneys smash!


    Side Note: There is a literal connection to the book Frankenstein and the poem Ozymandias. One written by Mary Shelley and the other Percy Shelley.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  18. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    ***Some may see this as a spoiler***

    Watch at own risk...the trailer for the last episode has apparently leaked...however the trailers rarely tell what exactly is going to happen. Especially here lately.



     
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  19. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    Mr "Petty with a prior" himself...

    [​IMG]

    And yes the phone number works lol

    Maybe Gene can "Better Bill Bill" and get bail..!
     
  20. notesofachord

    notesofachord Caution (Do Not Stop on Tracks)

    Yeah, I dunno man. If I was him, I’d be milking my Breaking Bad fame for all its worth. Success in show business can easily be a fleeting thing. I mean, he could just leave show biz and get a regular job like the rest of us schmucks, but c’mon…

    Perhaps he’ll go back to selling cereal on Saturday morning TV.

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    Yes, I believe it is. The Francesca scene shows it to be old and worn. But the covering over the gas area has the same red shingles (though less of them) and the same square lights underneath. Also the sign is the same shape. Except in BB it had an American Indian as the logo. At least the back of it did. At some point it was owned by someone else and now has a faded "RS" on it.

    I lay money it is the same gas station/store.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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  22. VU Master

    VU Master Senior Member

    I’ve enjoyed reading everybody’s comments about E11 and feel a little bad I’ve been so long in weighing in. But I always need to watch these shows a second or third time and live with them for a while to know what I really think about them.

    Basically I enjoyed all of this one. As a few here have said it felt disjointed with all the story and timeframe changes but I pretty much expected that and didn’t mind. Like I wrote last week I had a hunch they’d have a last flurry of jumping around before converging the timelines and finishing the stories, and it does seem like that’s what’s happening. But it is hard to follow, and I wish we could see a timeline that connected those flashbacks with the old episodes they refer to. Maybe somebody somewhere has done that?

    It was fun to see the Jesse and Walt again but wow, the Jesse character was disappointing, which kind of spoiled those scenes for me. I agree with whoever said that they should have altered his voice — or something. It just didn’t work, and I’m surprised they released it that way, though the Walt character felt right. Obviously the RV scenes were just meant to be a little present for the fans and didn’t really move the story along, but I wish Aaron Paul had somehow been able to step back in Jesse role without making us all scratch our heads over the way it was played. (Was that scene set during one of Jesse’s booths with heroin? That might make his sluggish demeanor a little more forgivable. But it still didn’t feel right.)

    About the phone call with Kim, there was a pause after the call was answered, and he asked for her, which makes me think the argument was between the two of them. My hunch: Kim said “You promised to stay away and now you’re jeopardizing both of us. Call me again and I'll report you to the Feds."

    For me, it's not really a problem that the current Jeffie character is so milquetoast compared to Don Harvey, who played him confronting Saul at the mall. Pat Healy portrays Jeff as being much more suggestible and vulnerable than the way we saw him before and maybe that was planned, because now it’s all about Saul controlling him. Maybe those in charge took advantage of the change by shifting the character, or maybe that was Healy’s call. Yes, it feels a little weird but it’s not a big problem for me, and I think Healy plays him well.

    What's the “jeweler” scene that people have mentioned here? I don’t recall it and am curious. Saul has what, 50 diamonds in that little bad we’ve seen? They must be worth a few million, right? So I don’t think he needs the money he’s getting from these scams. Like others have opined, I think he’s mostly doing it out of compulsion.

    I hope we see more of Marion. I vote with the folks who think that she’ll be Saul’s final undoing. It’ll be fun to find out.
     
  23. Lonson

    Lonson Just a Lucky So-and-so

    Or sleep with the fishes. . .
     
  24. rene smalldridge

    rene smalldridge Senior Member

    Location:
    manhattan,kansas

    This is all pretty fair conjecturing EXCEPT the film Frankenstein was directed by James WHALE not James Wells.
     
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  25. mpayan

    mpayan Resident Mofi Shill

    Gotcha, yeah when I was dictating the phone picked up as "Wells". In the show Saul says "James Whale's traveling show..." Just mispelled it. Unless he meant Well's which I dont think he did. Wouldnt make much sense.

    So we can resubmit that. Dumb phone.
     

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