Biggest Band Drop-off After One Quits/Fired

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MortSahlFan, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. tkl7

    tkl7 Agent Provocateur

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Not obvious to me.
     
  2. Murman

    Murman Forum Resident

    So, I've heard this a lot about Bill Berry and REM and I agree they were better when he was in the band, but what exactly did he contribute other than drumming? Was this more of a coincidence thing in that when he left, Stipe/Buck/Mills wanted to change their direction a bit AND their own songwriting went downhill somewhat? Just wondering how, or if, this would have changed if Berry stayed in the band.
     
  3. ghoulsurgery

    ghoulsurgery House Ghost

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Someone else here can probably answer more comprehensively than me, but I know he did a decent amount of writing. I think he stepped up in that role a lot during the Out of Time/Automatic era when they started swapping instruments and roles regularly.
     
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  4. Hiraeth

    Hiraeth Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    you're right--too harsh a word. i like Dance Little Sister, the title track, the Temps cover. Taylor's solo on Time Waits For No One is probably the all time greatest lead guitar swan song in R&R history.

    but i still do think that IORR, rather than GHS, is where the big quality drop occurs. and i do think that Keith's songwriting ability is severely compromised by his habit, which translates to the songs not being all that strong, relatively speaking. and i also do find Mick's vocals are extremely self-conscious because of the Bowie thing. For instance, Til The Next Goodbye could have been ok, but Mick is just over the top with the vocal mannerisms. he's also very mannered on the title track, but it kind of works there....
     
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  5. zen

    zen Forum Resident

    Good ol' Billy Bruford.
    Speaking as a fan since the early 70's....I must disagree.



    I find BA far stronger than the last two Sabbath albums. To each his own!
    But hey...we get to enjoy them all, when we're not doing the post game analysis guff. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  6. DaverJ

    DaverJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Tennessee
    XTC with drummer Terry Chambers was perfect, and admittedly without him they continued to make some incredible music -- but no drummer got Terry's feel. His presence was really missed.

    However, when Dave Gregory left for Wasp Star, it was definitely the end for the band.
     
  7. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I don't love "B&B" but it's an upgrade over the two mediocrities that preceded it.

    I don't get the love for "GHS" and "IORR"! :shrug:
     
  8. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    I don't get the love for Black & Blue. I think it is much worse than the 2 lps which preceded it.
     
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  9. Overthehillsandfaraway

    Overthehillsandfaraway Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Didn't Berry more or less write Everybody Hurts? I remember Peter Buck saying it was ironic that he'd written it but was hardly on it till the end part.
     
  10. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Again, I don't love it, but I think it's superior to the 2 before it.

    "Hand of Fate" is a great track!
     
  11. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Hand of Fate is the best track on the album in my opinion but it almost always omitted from their compilation albums of material from this period.
     
  12. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    :cussing:
     
  13. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    That's one of their best albums.
     
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  14. plextor

    plextor Forum Resident

    I thought they had better artistic integrity and better song writing after DLR left. Hagar was a more serious writer and better singer to me. DLR was to much of an aloof.
     
  15. negative1

    negative1 80s retro fan

    Location:
    USA
    Singles died out in the 90's, so those are barely worth mentioning.
    Only younger artists that have huge success streaming care about those now.

    Going by this : Depeche Mode discography - Wikipedia
    Album sales for them, have crushed all the sales of their previous albums, hence no drop off
    for them since he left. Multiple gold records in UK/US and worldwide sales are much bigger
    than their previous eras.

    And the live shows sales, boxsets and touring most definitely impact perception of the band
    and magnitude.

    Ultimately, they are much better off with him, and sure it would have been nice for him
    to have stayed with the band, but they're both better off now.

    later
    -1
     
  16. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Not surprising given that it wasn't a hit - or even released as a single!
     
  17. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    I would say best sounding and recorded but not in content.
     
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  18. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Tracks like Crazy Mama, Time Waits For No One and Dancing With Mr. D and Dance Little Sister have been on more compilations and they were not released as singles either.
     
  19. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Point taken! Not sure why "Hand" hasn't gotten compilation treatment - maybe they know it's the best song on the album and no one will buy "B&B" if they can get it elsewhere? ;)
     
    John Fell likes this.
  20. Wombat Reynolds

    Wombat Reynolds Jimmy Page stole all my best riffs.

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA

    beat me to it.

    he wasnt just a great lead player, he wrote a lot of their killer riffs that the songs centered around. If you listen to the next couple of albums.... Howard and Nancy are very good electric players, but there wasnt anybody to take anything way over the top like Fisher did. And the best "Guitar riff" on either of those albums (arguably) is Fishers, Bebe Le Strange. Altho the riff on the Situation is excellent, it sounds curiously like something Fisher would have written, with those Blackmore-esque chromatics.

    I asked him once if he wrote that and he said he couldnt remember. They had a lot of "unfinished" stuff when they cast him aside under.... less than flattering circumstances.

    Anyway, yeah, the two albums after he left, just arent as good.
     
  21. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    I would say in content, too.
     
  22. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    To each his own I guess. I only like 3 or 4 songs.
     
  23. peskypesky

    peskypesky Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
    I really like Black and Blue. For my tastes I'd put it about equal to Goat's Head Soup. And I'd put both of those a bit below It's Only RnR.

    But that's just like my opinion, man.
     
  24. Paul Gase

    Paul Gase Everything is cheaper than it looks.

    Location:
    California
    Shemp was great. He was a Stooge before Curly, and then came back, however reluctantly. And did a memorable job, too. He was funny in his own way.
     
  25. Walter Sobchak

    Walter Sobchak Forum Resident

    How so? Unhalfbricking is a brilliant record
     

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