Bill Evans - You Must Believe In Spring - Craft 45 rpm LP, and SoTA digital

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Swordsandchains, Apr 5, 2022.

  1. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Well the owner at RTI said it in no uncertain terms.
    My Clapton one step was perfect. Still, the records I got are so noisy that RTI should be held responsible for shipping that garbage out, even if Craft went budget on us.
     
  2. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    Uh.

    I learned how to calibrate a 24 track 2" Studer once upon a time, as well as various other decks. It was a lousy time to learn how to be an audio engineer and make a career of it, unless I was a trust fund type, so unfortunately, I'd have no clue how to do it all these years later.

    In other words, I get tape speed, as well as your condescending attitude.

    I have a small bunch of 45rpm LPs, and I like them, but I don't want to make a habit of insisting that everything in my collection has to be the ultimate, uber cork sniffer-approved geeked-out, money-no-object thing ever. I'll pick up the CD of this, with bonus tracks ($15!!), and hang onto my original LP for now. Lots of complaints in this very thread about the pressing quality of the Craft 2x45 anyway. I have oodles of Bill Evans vinyl...original, analog OJC, and all the live stuff that's come out over the past several years.

    Which brings us back to you. If it's that important to you, why not spring for a killer reel-to-reel deck and pay $450+ for new RTR tapes of everything in your collection? They'd trounce the vinyl in most cases, 'cos, y'know, tape speed.

    It's a damn shame this couldn't have been a Tone Poet or AP 33 1/3 release. It would have been an instant buy for me.
     
  3. Mike H.

    Mike H. Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york
    Some people seemed to get noisy copies, just as others got clean copies. I lucked out I guess--mine is dead silent, flat, centered and sounds fantastic. Hope you're able to get a nice sounding replacement!
     
    marcb, Jam757 and Swordsandchains like this.
  4. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    The length of the album does matter when cutting records at different speeds. It may not be the only thing that matters, but it might arguably be the biggest (all other things equal).

    If faster is unequivocally better, why is 15ips often preferred over 30ips - even if cost is taken out of the equation?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
  5. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I got a fairly noisy copy. Surface noise isn’t too bad, but it’s far from great too. But my copy is very ticky - particularly for an album with many quiet sections.

    Damned carbon black colored vinyl... :whistle:

    I wouldn’t normally bother with returning it because it’s not “terrible” and it was cheap. Plus why drive up costs in the apocryphal chase for perfection when it probably doesn’t exist. But it seems like there may have been some good and not-so-good batches, so maybe I will...
     
    Mike H. likes this.
  6. Mike H.

    Mike H. Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york
    One of my friends had the same ticking issue but it actually went away after an ultrasonic clean and a few spins. Might be worth a shot if you haven't already! It really is a lovely job by KG and does deserve to be heard with a quiet pressing!
     
  7. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I clean all of my records before playing. But I don’t have an ultra-sonic cleaner...
     
    Mike H. likes this.
  8. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Mine is pretty good. I must have lucked out. After playing a few times, Side 1 has quieted down a bit, enough so to warrant keeping. The other three sides are fine.
     
    CBackley and Mike H. like this.
  9. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Not meant to be condescending, but the 45rpm sounds better than an original, and the speed at which it's cut has great sonic advantages. That's a physical and proveable fact. Whether a company takes advantage of it is another thing. But asking rhetorically why press at 45 when the album is 34 minutes long ignores the other physical demonstrated advantages.
     
  10. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Economic.

    But the time length of a record has little to do with it.

    Anecdotally, dance club records were often cut at 45, even though they might have 7 minutes long, allowing for tremendous dynamics.

    And even though most Blue Note albums run under 20 minutes per side, the 45s sound better through the midrange, comparing Music Matter 33s to their 45s as well as Analogue Production 45s.
     
  11. joshbg2k

    joshbg2k Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    My vinyl copy is just gorgeous. I guess I lucked out. It’s the best thing I’ve heard all year. Now for that digital version…
     
    DangerousKitchen, Jam757 and Mike H. like this.
  12. Jam757

    Jam757 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    This pressing is fantastic and in my mind essential. I would keep trying even if it took 10 times to get a quiet copy. I own the Doug Sax CD, a very nice reissue CD, and the original vinyl. This trumps them all.
     
    Tom Campbell, Mike H. and AnalogJ like this.
  13. Leugi

    Leugi Forum Resident

    Location:
    DC
    It’s amazing the different experiences with the same record same pressing

    makes one think the difference are the people listening

    I mean it’s not that big a run is it? And yet we have a person saying the vinyl looks like garbage and others say it’s magnificent
     
    Swordsandchains likes this.
  14. Drew769

    Drew769 Buyer of s*** I never knew I lacked

    Location:
    NJ
    For once, looks like I received a good copy. Mine sounds good, and it’s more than acceptably quiet for its price point. I wish my $125 KoB UHQR was this quiet the first time around…
     
    Mike H. and AnalogJ like this.
  15. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I don't doubt that there may be some quality control issues. While my copy's surfaces look fine and play more than acceptably, the edges feel a bit unfinished, as in sharp.

    But the mastering is terrific, and those with a good system and good ears to match will be rewarded. If you get a bad copy, keep trying, as much of a pain in the touchas it might be.
     
    Mike H. and CBackley like this.
  16. jamiehowarth

    jamiehowarth Senior Member

    Al Schmitt was *the* maestro…
     
  17. jamiehowarth

    jamiehowarth Senior Member

    Not an exact analogy when it comes to tape. 7.5 was capable of flat response in the audible range. So was 3.75 though the wavelengths are getting really small and gap length that short is expensive, so it was rare that a consumer machine would have the quality of head needed to work at 3.75 above 12 kHz.
    The data density at 7.5 is better than the inner diameters at 45RPM, 15IPS clobbers it.

    Cassette otoh hand was purpose-built … ferrite or glass heads w super short 20 microinch gaps and serious pre-emphasis/de-emphasis. It was totally capable of 20 - 20k and w Dolby b was quiet enough for pop recording. The problem was flutter which was tough to control w the tiny capstan. There is one section of the Whitney Houston Bodyguard box set, a live Radio City show where 1 of the 4 DATs was missing but the cassette survived. We were able to transfer it and find a 68k birdie from a power supply emanating into the record head - and as a result it was possible to dewow/deflutter, after which it was indistinguishable from the DATs.
     
  18. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Didn’t happen.
     
    Mr Smith likes this.
  19. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk Sorry, I can't talk now, I'm listening to music...

    Location:
    Gilbert Arizona
    That is the one I have and I am kind of interested in the new Craft CD version but not sure it would be worth it to me...
     
  20. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    So was Doug Sax.
     
    Simon A likes this.
  21. Mr Smith

    Mr Smith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nevada
    Doesn't take much for a bad pressing. Careless employee for a day? A Friday? How many records do they press a day.
    One person could effect a lot of records.
     
    Tullman likes this.
  22. Mike H.

    Mike H. Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york
    Apparently there are different levels of QC and pressings at GZ as well so this wouldn’t shock me. Supposedly it’s one of the causes of the bad few months Vinyl Me Please had earlier this year when most of their essential records of the month had pressing issues.
     
  23. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    An additional round of Vinyl Flat treatment on a higher heat setting finally fixed the massive dish warp on my second (or third? I forget) copy. I’m just about finished listening now. This sounds really great! A few brief moments of crackle, but otherwise dead quiet. Very dynamic sound. The piano sounds great to me.
     
    rcsrich likes this.
  24. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Incorrect on 15ips being solely economics. Yet again, incorrect on the length of the side.

    Dance club records were cut at 45 because singles are “45 rpm”. If you cut a 7 min 12” record at 33 1/3 you can get the same dynamics.

    Saying that BN albums - or any for that matter - sound better though the mid-range isn’t relevant to the question of whether there are diminishing returns cutting at 45 rpm as the length of a side decreases? And again, the answer to that question is yes.
     
  25. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Being an acoustic three piece with a lot of space does warrant quiet vinyl.

    Since when is $42.50 cheap?

    I'm with you about not returning every record we get with minor flaws to save on increased costs dumped back on the consumer. Not to mention the aggravation of actually returning the record. However, it's gotten to the point price wise where it does become unacceptable.

    Sometimes I have gone to different sellers in hopes that they might have a different batch.
     

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