"Billions" New TV Drama on Showtime Discussion Thread

I think it's going to be a full-on, rather cartoonish free-for-all. They've brought back Damian Lewis and John Malkovich. These final eps might be a lot like the last ep of "Seinfeld" -- just start throwing in the old characters for entertainment's sake.

Perhaps Axe's wife and sons make an appearance screaming, "You left us all high and dry in the States, you deek! We're taking you down!"

Perhaps the older pizza restaurant owner comes back with a vengeance and takes out Axe and Rhoades, and with the help of Wags, becomes the official pizza provider of the NFL?

 

fishing partner John "small enough for you now?" Rice must still be out to avenge his father and the 9/11 dirt dished out by Ax...

 

Giamatti is great in everything I've ever seen him in.

Entitled rich people. Rhodes needs to look no further than the nearest mirror. He's Old Money. That's the epitome of entitled rich people.

Prince and Axe grew up poor. They had to work to get where they are. They are New Money. That's Rhodes' real problem with them IMO.

 

Well, Rhodes is rich but not stupid rich. There's a huge difference between having $20M-$30M and having billions and billions of dollars... as Mike Prince and Bobby Axelrod have proven.

I think it's a testament to the show's writers and producers that all the characters have shades of gray: all the bad people have moments where they're good, smart, even loyal... and the "good" people (like Rhodes and so on) have ulterior motives, selfishness, and vindictiveness on occasion. At least Rhodes is saying he's turned a new leaf and is not trying to crush Prince simply because he's rich -- he's doing it because he truly believes that if an arrogant, entitled billionaire like Prince got elected to President, it would absolutely ruin the country. The fact that Wags, Taylor, and Wendy are all in on the scheme to stop Prince tells you this is a major conflict.

Don't forget that the season opened with a jump 5 months forward, where Prince smashes the glass window of Wendy's office and screams at her, after he discovers her betrayal. That sews the seeds for what's to follow in the current story.

BTW, if the show has one central flaw, it's that they're not making Mike Prince out to be more of an A-hole. To me, he's kind of a bland, nice guy, capable of being ruthless, but not obnoxious, not cruel, and not treacherous. Bobby Axelrod was all of those things, but he was so colorful and fun to watch, it was sort of like cheering for the Corleone family to win in the Godfather movies.

 

That 20-30 is from Daddy's trust fund. Prince and Axelrod earned their billions. If Rhodes had truly turned over a new leaf, he would be trying to beat Prince at the ballot box.

Now just because I think that Rhodes is villain of this series doesn't mean that I think Prince or Axe are saints. Prince as the bland, nice guy is an act. We've seen that mask slip.

 

I was more convinced than ever that Rhodes is the hero with the most recent episode. How can you not empathize with the guy?

Well, here's Wikipedia's description of the initial story:

Set primarily in New York and Connecticut, the series depicts hedge fund manager Bobby Axelrod (Damian Lewis) as he accumulates wealth and power in the world of high finance. Axelrod's aggressive tactics frequently garner the attention of United States Attorney Chuck Rhoades (Paul Giamatti). Rhoades is based on Preet Bharara, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York in Manhattan from 2009 to 2017, and the series was inspired by real-life federal prosecutions of financial crime. Bharara's 2013 prosecution of hedge fund manager Steven A. Cohen of S.A.C. Capital Advisors loosely influenced the first season, while Salomon Brothers' 1991 manipulation of U.S. Treasury bonds inspired the second.

So I think the U.S. Attorney was considered the real-life hero, and the billionaires in those cases did go to jail. How that influences the current show is a good question. It's a great writing skill for the showrunners to be able to make despicable people so admirable, almost noble, under the right conditions. (Again, I draw a parallel to The Godfather or The Sopranos, where you have the "good" bad guys vs. the "bad" bad guys.)

Billions has a habit of jerking the rug out from under you (for both the characters and the viewers), so my prediction is that nobody is going to get what they want in the end.

 

The villains are almost always the most fascinating characters and as I said previously, Giamatti's been great in every role I've seen him in. The fact that I do empathize with this smug, self-anointed trust-fund pervert is a testament to his acting chops.

It may be based on someone's life and career, but it's not a docudrama.

 

They revealed in the current episode that Chuck Rhodes is no longer an S&M prevert (much to my surprise, since it hasn't been talked about in a couple of years).

 

is his ex done with it too?

 

Without judging the sexual preferences of consenting adults -- I don't think Chuck was supposed to be seen as a "prevert"... the storyline was added just to reiterate that many folks in high positions of power often seek S&M for sexual satisfaction...

That said, I'd say that that storyline probably proved unpopular with viewers. It was probably introduced for some shock value initially, but...

As this show is probably drawing a middle-aged male population (who probably watch superhero movies), the idea of seeing another middle-aged dude tied up, semi-nude, and dominated probably wore thin quite quickly.

 

Just a joke.

As to Chuck's predilections, I like what he said in a recent episode:



My take from that is they're trying to say he's a new, wiser man who's learned from his experiences. Are they setting him up to be the only guy who wins when the series wraps? Good question.

They haven't gotten into that, and they've greatly minimized the Chuck/Wendy relationship. My guess is the producers decided to center on other things; whether that was due to the showrunners' intent or network interference is a good question.

I think they were trying to spin a lot of plates on the show, but quite a few things fell by the wayside over time. Interestingly, they did bring back one of Bobby Axelrod's (now-grown) kids in a very recent episode, and he hadn't been seen in the show for years and years. So somebody's paying attention to continuity (same actor).

 

Yep. We discussed many seasons back that Chuck was making $185k annually as Attorney General. Not a meager amount by any means but I doubt he'd be able to easily save up even one million dollars on his own leading the lifestyle he had (large home in expensive area, children, Federal and State/Manhattan taxes etc.).

 

Yeah, I would bet just the taxes on a townhouse that tony in Manhattan would swallow up his entire salary. So he's still got the trust fund to live on. But I think they established that he worked for years in NY as an attorney and made a good living doing that for awhile.

 

Isn't Wendy on at least 10 times that?
Surely she chipped in while they were together all those years.
Especially (and at least) to ensure quality education for the kids.
I reckon Chuck would have a very nice nest egg in the millions......just like the old man,

 

I think they are all villains to one degree or another. Rhodes goes after successful entrepreneurs in a monomaniacal way and, perhaps, embodies a resentment for success as we see surface in this country. The Prince character has abandoned much or most of any ethical concerns to pursue wealth and power, but maintains a self-identify-delusion concerning his own irreplaceable value and destiny. He triggers people like Rhodes who then become self-destructive. Axe is less dangerous in a way than Prince. Axe is direct and does not delude himself or claim to be a savior or some political messiah. Of course, Axe also triggers Rhodes who lacks Axe’s direct self-confidence. Rhodes is a trickster and is perfectly suited to swim with the phonies in the political shark tank. The senior Rhodes is an unscrupulous hedonist who does not accept guilt for the atrocities he committed along the way. Wendy is morally ambiguous and is fascinated by those who have power-no matter what the source and she is very skillful to profit from those who can reward her. With Prince-has she reached some limit to what even she can abet and tolerate? Just a few thoughts. I could hit Taylor and others, but I will spare you.

 

The townhouse is actually supposed to be on Pierrepont Street in Brooklyn Heights not Manhattan. So not quite as expensive as Manhattan, but still very expensive. The actual townhouse location is in the most elegant section of Brooklyn’s Park Slope neighborhood on 8th Avenue not far from Grand Army Plaza; also quite pricey!

 

Yes, which reinforces the point Chuck seems angry at all the people who actually earned their wealth (Wendy, Axelrod, Prince) vs. him who seems to be the ultimate trust fund baby.

 

I think they established that Chuck's evil dad squandered a lot of the family fortune, so none of them have as much money as they once did. (For what that's worth.) Note that CHUCK caused them to lose a lot of that money by arresting evil hedge fund and investment people.