Bing Crosby vs. Frank Sinatra -- contemporary stature.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Garbanzo, Dec 11, 2014.

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  1. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    On the "Rare Bing Crosby" CD you can hear Bing talk about Rock and Roll in 1956 on one of his radio shows. He realizes that young people will like what they like. He then proceeds to sing Johnny Ace's "Pledging My Love".
     
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  2. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Ain't THAT the truth! ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
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  3. Jason W

    Jason W Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mill Valley, CA
    It has come to light that many of the stories that his son Gary told were exaggerated in order to sell his book. New info and footage is now out, plus statements by the last surviving son, that reveal Bing's bad rep was largely urban legend spun by Gary. The sad truth about this boys was that they suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome and mental illness, so it's not fair at this point in history to put all the blame on Bing and write him off.
     
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  4. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    I did see him tell Barbara Walters that if one of his children ever lived with someone out of wedlock that he would never speak to them again. So we do know that in some ways the guy was no day at the beach.
     
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  5. JimSav

    JimSav Well-Known Member

    Location:
    NYS
    Dean himself credited The Mills Brothers (and in particular one of them, although I'm blanking on his name) as his greatest influence. Tosches' bio is tremendously entertaining I go back to it again and again.

    As for Bing v Frank, I love this discussion. Count me in with the people who say that the brilliance of the first phase of Bing's career has been unfairly forgotten.

    Relevance is always a tricky thing. I think the brilliance of the material that Sinatra and Crosby worked with will help ensure their survival, although their relevance and influence will continue to fade as we travel further and further away from their cultural context and as those who experienced it firsthand die off. But the wonderful music and lyrics, aided in Sinatra's case by the tandem dynamics and color of his vocal and the orchestral arrangements, will continue to speak to people.

    Although there will always be people who just don't get him. He was just a mob-owned thug, after all---never hit a true note in his life.
     
  6. JimSav

    JimSav Well-Known Member

    Location:
    NYS
    This was a thing even for those who came a generation after him. One of my father's uncles was scandalized that my sister had been living with her fiance prior to their engagement. Although he seemingly had no problem with my tomcat self.
     
  7. Jason W

    Jason W Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mill Valley, CA
    it's a strange hardness and need to control that seems to trump generosity in some people. my own grandfather offered to pay for college if i went to the college he went to... naturally, i had to work my way through school and debt on my own.
     
  8. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    Harry Mills is the brother that Dean credited as an influence but always claimed Crosby as his greatest influence. "Sinatra, Como and me...we all copied him".

    Crosby always makes a 'comeback" this time of the year but Sinatra is around all the time. He is ever-present.
     
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  9. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    Bing has had a very low pop culture profile for a few decades now, certainly compared to Sinatra. Even in the 1970s his time had clearly passed, though so had Sinatra's! The Dean Martin roasts and the Jerry Lewis Telethons (Martin & Lewis!) seemed to be the only events taking the pulse of that whole generation of singers. My impression is that Bing's cult - if he had/has one - did not outlive his own lifetime. He will always be heard each and every year, though, as long as Christmas exists.
     
  10. JimSav

    JimSav Well-Known Member

    Location:
    NYS
    I'm aware of that quote. I'm almost sure though I've also heard or read something along the line where Dean credited Harry Mills as the greatest. Then again it's entirely possible I was hallucinating. And now I'm going to go listen to Bing and the boys sing Dinah.
     
  11. hello people

    hello people Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    Bing Crosby was a chap you could share an eggnog or two with...Frank Sinatra was a hood you could rob banks with
     
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  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    Lodi, New Jersey
    You've been watching ROBIN AND THE 7 HOODS one too many times and starting to believe it, Skolnick?
     
  13. Steve Carras

    Steve Carras Golden Retriever

    Location:
    Norco, CA, USA
    LOL Where does that leave Vaughn Monroe, Perry Como, or Rudy Vallee?
     
  14. Well, this is the thing. Abuse charges aside, to the extent Bing is remembered these days it's as a square from another era sporting a cardigan and going "buh buh buh boo", whereas Frankie had a slightly dangerous image and provided a template for middle-aged cool that, even if tinged with a bit of irony, still resonates. Who doesn't want to hit the stage in a tux with a martini in hand, and belt out a couple of numbers before hitting the craps table and retiring to the back room party with a showgirl in each arm? :)
     
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  15. Victrola Guy

    Victrola Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    The 1920's
    I've been meaning to get an account here, and this seems as good as a jumping-off point as I'll ever get, seeing as how I'm a huge Der Bingle fan. Hello, everyone! :wave:

    I was born the year Bing died, and I grew up thinking of him as Dudley described him. Plus, being a small time record collector during my teen years, all I ever found while thrifting were his boring blue (and later, black) label Decca records. It wasn't until I discovered Columbia's "A Bing Crosby Collection" series from the '70s that I started to dig further into his collective early works.

    There was a period of time, 1926 to 1932, when Bing pumped out some really hot records backed by some of the best musicians of the time. Also, during that period, Bing was known to be quite the hellcat! He was a heavy drinker, and smoked his fair share of the green stuff.

    The day Bing filmed the scene below, he had to be brought to the studio in handcuffs after being arrested for drunk driving:

    You had to be pretty freakin' drunk to be arrested for DD in 1930.

    Bing even had his own imitator, Russ Columbo.

    When Bing shed the other two Rhythm Boys, joined Brunswick records in the early '30s, and became a radio star, he stopped a lot of his wild ways and mellowed into the "crooner" we know him as today.

    However, if you want to hear some choice Bing... check out his sides with Paul Whiteman, The Rhythm Boys, and Gus Arnheim's Cocoanut Grove Orchestra.

    As for Frankie (of whom I'm also a huge fan,) I think his style is more suitable for and less foreign to modern ears than Bing's, IMO, best period...The Roaring '20s. Younger people will tolerate swing music, but not so much hot jazz.

    Someone brought up Al Jolson, who was huge in his day. Bing was influenced by Al, but all Al seems to be known as these days, and by most people, is "that guy in blackface.jpg" that always gets posted on the internet. I guess what I'm trying to say is that everybody fades with time. Al, Bing, Rudy... and someday, even Frank.
    Heck, if it hadn't been for "Lilo & Stitch" introducing a whole generation of kids to The King, I bet we could have put Elvis on that list too.

    (I swear... my future posts will be shorter, not as rambling, and less cluttered. I just have a passion for 'ol Bing.:tiphat:)
     
  16. jimac51

    jimac51 A mythical beast.

    Location:
    Allentown,pa.
    Check out Frank Tashlin's Looney Tune,Swooner Crooner,to see the sterotypes of Bing vs. Frankie...70 years ago!Yeah, a 1944 cartoon.Bing wears a Hawaiian shirt as well as sporting a pipe and going through the "Buh buh boo" while Frankie is portrayed as the Skinny Voice.Did I mention they were roosters?Absolutely brilliant!And the sexuality(stay to the end for a twist you couldn't expect on sanitized '40s movie screens)is hilarious!Only Porky Pig 'toon to get an Oscar bid.
     
  17. Heh, I actually remember seeing that cartoon as a kid - the main scene I recall is the one where the Frankie Rooster's torso is completely hidden by the mikestand as he sings, so you just see his disembodied arms, legs, and bowtie bopping up and down. :)
     
  18. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    See —> Frank Sinatra on Reprise appreciation thread!

    The full video seems to have been pulled from YouTube, but you can probably find a version somewhere online. Here's the "Frankie" excerpt:

     
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  19. jimac51

    jimac51 A mythical beast.

    Location:
    Allentown,pa.
    Unedited 'toon available in the Looney Tunes Golden Collection Vol.3(highly recommended and at current Amazon prices,you pay about fifty cents per 'toon and still lots of extras) or WB's Academy Award Animaton Collection,Vol.2 .
     
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  20. hello people

    hello people Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    Perry Como? Don't get me started about that hell raiser!
     
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  21. Victrola Guy

    Victrola Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    The 1920's
    Every time I think of Como, I instantly think of this sketch from SCTV:

    Pretty much sums up the "Perry Como Experience" for me!:yawn:
     
  22. JimSav

    JimSav Well-Known Member

    Location:
    NYS
    Always loved that Como sketch. Although I have to say, Perry Como In Italy (actually recorded in Italy) is a favorite of mine.
     
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  23. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Sinatra had more numerous artistic peaks during his career than did Crosby. Crosby was a great entertainer all his life. But Sinatra was a great artist at numerous points in his career, challenging himself continuously and choosing collaborators who challenged him.

    Crosby was a supreme artist in the late 20s and 30s. But Sinatra had at least one artistic triumph (an album or a particular song performance) for every decade of his career. Just think of what a brave thing the She Shot Me Down project was at that stage of his life. Wow.

    Eager to check out the Crosby documentary though.
     
  24. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    ...and he's amazing on it. Among Frank's best works.
     
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  25. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    So are you figuring in Christmas records when you say Bing Crosby outsold Michael Jackson?
     
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