Bing Crosby vs. Frank Sinatra -- contemporary stature.

yeah. i've never really gotten into Sinatra. compared to Crosby, he just sounds like he's trying too hard. IMO.

 

LOVE Al Jolson.....but I'm not on Facebook so it ain't me.......

 

I think one of the key reasons is the number of TV shows and movies where Sinatra songs are used as background or soundtrack - it means that people are exposed to Sinatra a lot more than Crosby. I was born in ‘82 but by the time I was about 11 knew a hoard of Sinatra songs even though there were no Sinatra albums in our house (a situation i’ve Remedied in my own). The only Bing Crosby song I knew by that point was White Christmas... Then I got into Louis Armstrong and heard their collaboration on Gone Fishing, then got into Bowie and heard Little Drummer Boy and explored Bing a bit more, but Bing I had to seek out, Sinatra I learnt I liked through osmosis.

 

Love Frank. Can't STAND Bing!

 

Some thoughts as I pop back into this thread. In some ways these two singers started at opposite ends of the energy-spectrum and met in the middle; meaning Bing was actually a highly dynamic, energetic, jazz-infused singer in his early days during the Hot Jazz era. People like to dwell on his crooning, and his especially sedate manner as an old guy, but he has been called the Jagger of his early period, as he was embracing Satchmo-styled scat singing and playful riffing. Bing mellowed, especially after some tonsil/throat issues in the early 1930s, and then mellowed further as he aged. Frank may have been inspired to croon like Bing at his own start, meeting up time-wise with a mellower Bing, but then rode his trajectory toward swinging, energetic material. So they each provided a "hot" act of the 1920s and 1950s respectively. Frank's peak was closer to modern times and his work was celebrated during post-war prosperity, whereas by then, Bing's 1920s seemed remote -and he was likely more associated with the Depression, WWII, and times of suffering that people hoped to forget. We can't really say one singer is better; it's a matter of taste and how each voice moves us (and based in which era we are listening to). Someone above mentioned that Frank made themed albums, perhaps as a bonus re: his relatability and interest, but Bing actually made scores of themed albums starting in the 1930s. But where Bing's were traditional songbook themes like Hawaiian, cowboy, Spanish, traveling, Christmas, Irish, dixieland, country, etc, Frank's may have been themed on more universal concepts like states of being/emotion- definitely a more modern notion. Personally, I've always preferred Bing because I relate to his humor, vulnerability, and connection to early jazz. But that's a different matter.

 

Bing was the Godfather and they all wanted to be Bing...

 

I love them both along with Dean!

 

I have an obsession with Hoagy Carmichael and i associate Bing with him more but Sinatra dug him too. Comparing versions of these two doing Hoagy might be fun. But, i really like Hoagy's versions a lot.

That's interesting Bing's themed albums and Sinatras are just different themes. One more literal and one more feelings or moods. But, for me, those Sinatra albums are his best. Many don't agree. I remember a cool show on VH1 with a music list where people debated it. And they dabated Sinatra's swingin' stuff vs. his moody stuff. With the comedian actress Bonnie Hunt on the swingin' side and David Allen Greer on the moody side. The swingin' side seemed to win with the crowd. David was surpirsingly deep and Bonnie was a little more on the poppy side, trippily. I also heard of Jeff Buckly on that episode.

Sinatra has a James Dean, Marylin Monroe type of symbology. Bing does not really. Even in his day he was kind of on the way to the golf course or the next martini kind of thing. Just different types.

 

One great way to compare them, if you want to compare their singing styles, on the same song sung around the same time. The song specifically is ‘The Second Time Around’ both recorded within a year or so of each, Bing’s being the original. Now if you couldn’t tell by my name I prefer Bing over Frank, and this song cements it for me. My reasons for this preference is that Frank’s dramatics in this song are over exaggerated (my thought process is it’s like giving Ol’ Man River dramatics to Old MacDonald). Whereas Bing in his usual casual ease sings it as if he’s directly talking to you. Another example is comparing their versions of Moonlight Becomes You. I can see both sides on this though.

 

A good comparison of them especially relating to the main topic of this comparing their popularity. Despite a few bits of missed info this article is pretty good. Why Frank and Not Bing? | HuffPost

 

I think Frank in that era was following and mimicking Bing? He came into his own artistically later on. I would think. The 50s concept albums being an example.

 

Prior to Bing being able to tape his radio broadcasts, using technology he helped get launched in America after WWII, nearly every one of Crosby's radio shows was performed in front of a live studio audience. He was performing live many weeks a year from around 1930 part-way into the late '40s. Bing also hosted several TV specials.

 

Someone mentioned Frank having better hit albums. A silly comparison to make when one considers that most of Bing's hundreds of hit records were recorded in the 78 rpm era, when an album looked like a fat photo album with four, thick, 10" diameter lacquer records in it. In the early 60s, because of technology change, 78s became (for most people) obsolete--meaning you couldn't play grandma's Crosby albums. When the 10" microgroove LP albums came out, some of Bing's first Decca LPs were actually just rereleases of his more recent 78 albums in the new format. Also, it should be considered that ideas for what should be collected in an album during the 78 era was quite different than in the 1960s. How thematically connected album selections needed to be varied a lot. Many of of Bing's 78 albums collected songs from one of his popular movies, but less connected albums were also released. But what did Crosby do for his very first album recorded intentionally for the new microgroove format. He went to Paris in 1953, and on May 16, with an orchestra conducted by Paul Durand, he recorded 8 currently popular French songs, singing them all in French. What did Frank do that was comparable to that?

Let me also counter statements by those who have poo-pooed "Bing Sings Whilst Bregman Swings," which was recorded just over 3 years after "Le Bing: The Song Hits of Paris" just referred to. I think it is an absolutely great album. I realize that it was jarring for folks who thought "Swinging On A Star" was the middle of Bing's musical lane. It was also one of the earliest LP albums to be released on the then-new Verve label. It also appears that some people responding to this thread are little aware of Bing's late albums produced by Ken Barnes, with the help of band leader Pete Moore, in England. "Seasons," Bing's last album, recorded about 3 weeks before Bing died of a heart attack in Spain, is a masterpiece. I remember seeing a couple of Sinatra's last televised singing performances, when his voice was pretty much gone. I wished he hadn't bothered. Frank wasn't the vocal stylist that Tony Bennett is. If all Tony could manage was a whisper, it would still be jazz. Near the end of his life, Crosby's vocal range certainly was less, and different than it was years earlier, but in "Seasons," Bing is absolutely in control of how he sang those songs, including his reprise of "June in January" which he'd first recorded in the 1930s. Much of the material carries a dramatic weight, informed by Bing's years. "Feels Good, Feels Right," recorded a little over a year earlier, isn't a collaboration with Barnes and Moore, but very much sounds like one and is also very much worth a listen.

One of the things often overlooked about Crosby, but which is very apparent to people who have listened to hours of Bing's old radio shows from the 30s and 40s, is what a great duet artist he was. Again these duets were sung live in front of a studio audience. Many times he harmonized on a new singer's would-be hit, being careful not to upstage them. There were several repeat singing guests, of course--the Andrews Sisters, of course. A lot of people don't realize that Peggy Lee appeared on Bing's radio shows more than any other female vocalist, singing solos as well as many duets with Bing.

For people who might denigrate Bing for going into what might be called a phase of semi-retirement, compared to what had been a grueling schedule of live radio, often multiple movies per year, and recording for many years, lets remember that one of the things that happened around what might have been the beginning of that transition, was Bing driving a pair of the first tape recorders to come off of the Ampex factory line over to his friend Les Paul's house in the trunk of his car. Within a week Paul had invented sound-on-sound recording, and then continued to develop this innovation. This is one of the most monumental developments in audio recording. Can you imagine "Sergeant Pepper's Heart's Club Band" or even Alvin and the Chipmunks without sound-on-sound? A comparable Sinatra technology landmark?

Someone said Sinatra was more musically diverse than Crosby. That's more than bassackwards. It would be much easier to argue, with copious evidence, that Bing sang too many kinds of songs, that was part of Decca's plan to make as much money off of his singing as possible. Irish songs, Hawaiian songs, Cowboy songs--make up a category and Bing could and would sing it, as good or better than others. There have always been a segment of Crosby fans who wish that somebody had tried to keep Bing closer to his jazz roots, the way Ralph Sharon played a roll in centering Tony Bennett's career. But no one can deny, that there were segments of Bing's fans who loved those diverse types of songs in the vast Crosby catalog.

There were two very negative books written about Crosby within a few years after his death. I've read both of them. 90% or more of those repeating negative things from those books have never even seen either book. "The Hollow Man" is extremely poorly written, full of chapter beginnings that trumpet conclusions which the chapter contents never prove, and sometimes contradict. It is like a very long English 102 essay draft, that would need to be almost completely rewritten to get a passing grade, and I mean a "C." It is a good example of how not to write a convincing argument. The other book, by Bing's eldest son, Gary, tells the story of a very unhappy little kid, who can't tell his dad why he is getting in fights in grade school almost every day. And who blames his dad for spanking him sometimes, after the dad's long, tedious attempts to get him to explain the fights. He worships his mother, despite her being almost entirely unavailable to him (seeing that she is "indisposed" in her room [drunk or on drugs] ) and despite her expecting his dad to discipline him for misbehavior at school or home. One of Gary's brothers vowed to never speak to him again after the book of lies came out. In interviews only a year later, Gary didn't even seem to remember writing several of the most scathing accusations about his father, making one wonder whether he had a ghost writer. Years later, Gary admitted to his half-sister, Mary, he just did the book for money and made up stuff to help it sell. Many people all along suspected he was just trying to get on the gravy train started by Joan Crawford's daughter's book, "Mommy Dearest," which came out only a few years earlier.

 

I stopped reading after: "Frank wasn't the vocal stylist that Tony Bennett is."

Peace out. ☮️

 

Cool thread and thanks to ‘time on my hands’ (plus I’m retired too) I’ve been really getting back into music.

A recent vinyl acquisition was the Bing and Rosemary Clooney’s ‘Fancy Meeting You Here.’ I find the entire album to be way over the top considering the pedigree of both singers. It’s simply too produced. Bing’s best work imho was with Buddy Cole in the small group setting. Relaxed and fun best describes those sides

I’ve always thought the Sinatra/Basie pairing was a natural and I finally bought the CD reissue of both studio outings. Particularly with the Neal Hefti charts, it just explodes with swing, class and humor. Why did I wait so long to buy this?

I like both singers, give the nod to Sinatra.

And since Perry Como was mentioned, the Ray Charles Singers and Michell Ayers deserve a ton of credit for Perry’s 50’s and 60’s era sound.

 

They are different and similar. Both dug jazz and openly courted, participated and championed jazz. This is an interesting similarity to me. Both had images which they played too that were just that images. Bit o truth bit o show biz. Both show biz to the core. Both did acting......

Really each unique but also share a lot. Preference for their image today is a personal thing. I like franks serious depressing slow side. And his seriousness about what he did. Bing was just as into it. You can hear it on the ballads. His technical a business contributions are so important. Similar to les Paul.

 

smart people that know a great artist...; )

 

as Dean Martin said; everyone wanted to be Bing...he truly was the KING of CROONING!
that said; I enjoy Frank more...

 

all in all a drop in the Facebook bucket.

 

who did she love?

 

My only exposure to Bing was his constant residency on a slew of tv variety shows of the 50-60s; pretty much made me indifferent to Bing. Years later, I got his Legendary box set; that truly opened my eyes to how much influence he created for future singers. Through this box I discovered his Andrew sisters work, but to truly access his influence hunt out the mosaic box, the CBS recordings. Very smooth, completely in contrast to the tv performer that I saw when I was growing up.

 

Isn't the answer to this The Kinks?

 

Bing

 

; ) gotcha...