Fair enough. When "Time Machine" debuted on the Wayne's World soundtrack, it got me excited. Then, upon hearing this album, I heard a big difference in the sound. I'm glad that you all like it! Wish I did.
It took me a while to appreciate it, it seemed very dark to me. When I heard the live versions in the years that the band made their tour as "Heaven & Hell" was for me a revelation. Those songs are really great ! It is a really powerful album, certainly different from Heaven & Hell and Mob Rules, but it had been a few years and Black Sabbath was entering the 90's with a more modern sound. It's a pity that he does not find much live material officially released from those years
Agreed. Boston 1992 (soundboard audio) and Reggio Emila 1992 (PRO video) would be a nice box set. I believe someone told me that Reggio Emilia was planned for a release on DVD or VHS but cancelled because they couldn't remove the TV channel logo. I don't know if that's true.
P.s.: ...and then there's Tampa 1992. Several songs from that show were released as bonus on the Dehumanizer Deluxe 2xCD: Black Sabbath - Dehumanizer I am wondering if they have more songs from that show. If they had, why wouldn't they have included more of them on the Deluxe? Possible answer: Because Tony or who-knows-why didn't like their performance on the other songs? Hmmmm...
Yes, I already know that material. Maybe there should be something else for the archives about that tour. Just remember that there are many legal issues about any release after the lawsuit that Ozzy made a few years ago. Any release with the name of "Black Sabbath" now passes through the approval of the four parties and that includes the Osbournes clan (Aka Sharon Osbourne). This is one of the reasons why at the moment that RJ Dio meets with Iommi in 2009 decided to go on tour as Heaven & Hell. All the releases and remasters of the post-Ozzy years stopped there. Currently we only see releases for 1970-78 and nothing after those years since 2009. Iommi has commented that eventually there would be a revision for the rest of the albums with Tony Martin (Tyr, Headless Cross and recently a remix of Forbidden) but so far they are just that: comments
I am not sure - actually we have got multiple non-Ozzy Sabbath re-issues and remasters since 2009, incl. the European Deluxe remasters of H&H, Mob Rules, Born Again, TEI and Dehumanizer in 2010 and 2011 respectively, and later reissues in diverse parts of the world, as well as the H&H Japan SHM-SACD. See e.g. here: Black Sabbath - Heaven And Hell Currently Tony Iommi is remixing Forbidden (or maybe he's already finished?): Tony Iommi remixing Forbidden Ozzy-Sabbath were very active from 2012 through 2017, which may be the main reason why no new live material from any ealier era (incl. the original Ozzy years) was released during that period. As Tim said in several Sabbath threads on these forums, Sabbath were an actively touring band and apparently preferred to release more recent rather than earlier live material. I hope that this will change, now that they are not a touring band anymore.
It is certainly true, but all the material you mentioned that appeared until 2011 was under contract and in work prior to 2009 (Contracts and arrangements with Universal / Vertigo for the remastering and reissue for all the catalog with Universal is prior to 2009) then everything stopped. The rest of the material with Tony Martin was under license of I.R.S records (there were also legal problems to recover the rights of those recordings) although Iommi managed to take control of its catalog everything stopped then All that appeared worldwide are reissues (Universal / Vertigo catalog that were under contract for remastering). But nothing new after the material 1970-78. Only material with Ozzy has received new revisions and recent remasters After the lawsuit and the subsequent settlement between Iommi and Osbourne, the name of the band can not be used without prior agreement of the four parties. And that includes merchandise. records, on line music, books ... in a few words everything. The announcement of the Forbidden remix is already over a year old and it seems that nothing is clear yet.
Fair enough. I freely admit I don't know much about that contract and its implications. And it is true (if I don't forgot something) that no PREVIOUSLY UNRELEASED PRE-"13" SABBATH MATERIAL has been released since 2007 or so. My objection was mainly directed to your statement that "All the releases and remasters of the post-Ozzy years stopped there." I still think that's not true. For example, what about the 2013 online hi-res release of the "Rules of Hell" box set? Black Sabbath - The Rules Of Hell Sure, it's the same material that was already included in the 2008 CD box set of the same name; but the mastering is totally different: The CD box set is compressed to death, the later online hi-res version is very dynamic (easily tested with tools, we're not talking subjective differences here). Do you think that that 2013 release was still agreed upon when the lawsuit got settled? I really doubt that. And the news about the Forbidden remix are not as old as you think. Archive Search - iommi forbidden remix - Page 1 - Blabbermouth.net
Well, I think you have already clarified the subject about the Box "Rules Of Hell", regardless of the new treatment or not of the audio, the material has already been published, legallyit is another reissue. For the rest of the catalog currently OOP and pending to be remastered: Iommi still needs to resolve the legal issue with IRS records (at least I think that was about to be fixed) and define a new contract with another company to offer and distribute the rest of the pending catalog with Tony Martin of course under the name "Black Sabbath" Edit: the first announcement for the Forbidden remix was made by Iommi on facebook in June 2015 at the 20th anniversary of the album. Ah ! Thanks for the quote mate ! Good vibes
Absolutely, but it is also, as you put it, a box set containing several "remasters of the post-Ozzy years". So those didn't entirely stop in 2009. I wasn't aware of that. Any sources? (I am not doubting you, just interested in any further details.) I know! My point was about your earlier statement that "The announcement of the Forbidden remix is already over a year old and it seems that nothing is clear yet.". I thought you were claiming that it was still not clear if the remix would really happen - which would be false because Tony Iommi has reported more recently that he was actually working on the remix with Mike Exeter, and Tony Martin confirmed he was invited there and had a nice meeting with Iommi where Iommi played a sample (or a few) of the remix to him. Anyway, if your statement instead referred to the legal issues required to be resolved in order for the remix to be released, you're likely right. Thanks to you for the great discussion!
Ok, I'll try to answer everything. These things that I mention are the product of years of following the band. 1-With regard to all the reissues with the Black Sabbath catalog, I think I have explained the matter to you. The arrangement was to remaster the discography of the band under Universal / Vertigo. By that time the issue of Ozzy's claim had not yet been given, after that there were no more reissues with new material as I have already mentioned. In fact you already know that no more remastered Black Sabbath material or archives have appeared except for the 1970-78 albums. 2-IRS is the record company that had the rights to all Black Sabbath material with Tony Martin (except for Eternal Idol) As you know that record label disappeared years ago and the rights of those recordings belong to the IRS. Iommi until a few years ago was negotiating to recover those rights that is the reason why all those albums have remained OOP. This is an old story and you can find it in any serious site on the web. But you can go to the Joe Sieger site, the guy handles those details and you can find many discussions about it in their forums 3-On many occasions even before 2011 Iommi has mentioned his interest in reviewing the material with Tony Martin but until now as you will see everything has been press announcements, interviews and comments, sadly just that. As I mentioned before since 2015 Iommi worked on the remix ... let's hope it appears publication date and we'll see if it's serious Edit: Ah about Rules Of Hell I do not see any controversy with the appearance of this digital version and what I have already commented before. It is simply a reissue of something already published and sufficiently known. By the way I can not find any source that ensures that it has been remastered ... A pleasure to share these comments with you ! really
Didn't really care for it that much when it came out. I definitely enjoy it now. It still think the mix could be better. Hearing the tracks they played from it live on the Heaven and Hell tour got me back into the album.
...except for the Rules of Hell HDtracks that is in fact a remaster and contains the 4 Dio-Sabbath albums plus bonuses. See below. You may well be right that it is not sure the release will happen, but I do think there is a difference between announcing one's interest in doing a remix and announcing that a remix is happening right now. And the latter claim is what Iommi and Martin have said in interviews towards the end of 2018 and beginning of 2019. I don't need any sources for that because I have both versions, and not do they sound very different from each other, but - as I already mentioned - tests confirm that one has a high dynamic range while the others is overcompressed. If you don't believe it, I can send you sound samples. It is a remaster, and it was released in 2013.
Brilliant album. Would've been the first time since Long Live Rock N Roll that Cozy and Ronnie were on record together. Having Vinny back was great though which lead to him working with the Dio band for two more albums and a live album. The begining of angry Ronnie, a shift in his music and a brutality that I'm happy he explored further with Strange Highways and Angry Machines. This tour was magnificent. I was not lucky enough to see them but every bootleg that I've heard has this amazing power coming from all four musicians. Absolutely a great album that shal not be forgotten.
Well, I like your insistent and challenging spirit. I already have some time here in the forum and I know that these trivia can be made eternal and never end in anything. I think we both have our reasons and successes. It was a nice conversation I'm going to review that about the "remaster" of Rules Of Hell that until now I only know is a digital edition in HD Tracks. Thanks for that information Thanks! and going back to the topic of the thread: I think we both like Dehumanizer a lot. I love it !