Which really, really puzzles me, because to my ears the 2021 sounds far removed from the original LPs and not nearly as good, but hey, good for you.
JIC you did not realize I was only speaking for the 2010 sanctuary and the 2021 deluxe hd track NOT the LP or ANY other release
I got that, but it doesn't make much of a difference because to me the 2010 sounds close to the original vinyl and both are close to perfection while the 2021 sounds just weird in comparison to both.
So I was bored and decided to check 3 versions of H&H ,2021 hdtrack deluxe/Rules of Hell hdtrack/SHM Sacd/ checked "Lonely Is The Word" I preferred the rules of hell I was surprised I thought the sacd would be the one but nope the 2021 version was much louder then either of the other 2
Rules of Hell hdtracks wasn't compressed at all if you mean the 2496 versions. For some reason the compression was removed compared to the rules of hell CDs.
Wait. The Rules of Hell on HDTracks has DR that high? Are those recommended digital versions of these albums? I have multiple CDs of each, but I’m always looking for something better. On a related note, is the Rules of Hell version of Live Evil the same as the Deluxe Edition 2-CD set of Live Evil? That’s the only deluxe I don’t have…because it didn’t seem very deluxe.
The CD box set, yes, absolutely. The 2013/2014 HDtracks of the same name: nope, very dynamic. The 2013/2014 HDtracks "The Rules of Hell" box set contains what seem to be the same masterings as the 2008 CD box set of the same title, yet without the compression of the latter. Interestingly, most of these HDtracks masterings sound relatively bright, the exception being Dehumanizer, which sounds significantly darker than the CD(s). The only Dio-era HDtracks mastering that is my favorite for the respective album is Dehumanizer (and no, I am not aware of many people who recommend the HDtracks for one of the other Dio-era albums). Mind you though, I've been told that HDtracks has recently replaced the dynamic Dehumanizer 2013/2014 mastering with a different one that sounds very compressed (probably the 2008 one). The same might or might not be true for the other Dio-era HDtracks albums, so be careful not to pick the wrong version. The 2010/2011 Sanctuary Deluxe masterings are entirely unrelated to either the 2008 CD box set or the HDtracks. The Live Evil Sanctuary 2xCD Deluxe sounds muffled in one channel. The Live Evil HDtracks doesn't suffer from that flaw and sounds very dynamic, but too bright for my taste. My go-to version is the original WB CD. It has the best EQ though it sounds a tiny tad compressed. If anyone ever matches the EQ of the HDtracks to the original WB CD (without adding compression), that might turn out to be my favorite. The Heaven and Hell HDtracks 2013/2014 sounds very nice and dynamic but a tad too bright for my taste. For this album, I prefer the slightly darker-sounding SACD and the much darker-sounding 2010 Sanctuary CD. See my Sabbath mastering thread (link in my signature below).
At some point HDtracks removed their 24/96 and 24/192 Rules of Hell downloads and substituted a 16/44.1 one. All the tracks are labeled "2008 Remaster." The individual (non-DE) downloads of Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are still 24/96 and 24/192, and they're the 2013/2014 remasters. The individual Live Evil and Dehumanizer downloads are only 16/44.1, and they're the 2008 remasters.
It probably has something to do with rights. Maybe they aren't able to sell the 24/96 versions of Live Evil or Dehumanizer anymore? The 24/96 2014 Heaven and Hell is the best digital version of that album I've yet come across.
Andy Pearce has been given so many jobs remastering metal albums and he's done a bad job at every one I've heard. Makes me so angry that he's the go-to guy now. His work is incredibly amateurish.
I don't think sweeping generalizations like that are helpful in this context. I am very unhappy with some of of Pearce's Sabbath remasters too. Yet they are way too different to lump them all together. The 2009-2011 remastering series was mostly great (natural- and dark-sounding), the 2012 series was mostly bad (very bright-sounding), and the 2021 series so far has sounded just weird (see here for an overview). People who hate the Vol. 4 2016 Rhino CD (using the Pearce 2012 mastering) will likely love the 2009 Sanctuary and vice versa. And whatever you think about the 2009-2011 remasters, one thing they are certainly not is "amateurish" (with the exception of those CDs in the series that weren't actually remastered by Pearce: Paranoid, TE, NSD and Dehumanizer). Since I dislike most of the Sabbath remasters Pearce has done post-2011, I am angry at him as well, but let's face it: it's not like he's making all the decisions. He's got a job, and he's often told what to do. For all we know, that's likely what happened with said post-2011 remasters. At least with Vol. 4, Tony and Geezer were personally involved, and obviously not for the better. That's frustrating, but it is not Pearce's fault that those guys ruined their hearing decades ago, and I doubt that he's in the position to completely ignore their wishes.
He's done a number of metal masterings I quite like- Sabbath '09/'10 (Heaven & Hell, Mob Rules, debut, Master of Reality, Vol 4, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath), Angel Witch, Holy Diver. Might be more I'm not recalling. So I found it quite a shame when I heard the Sabbath 2014 HDtracks (2012 mastering) and then these 2021 masterings are so bad. He's no longer a name I want to see involved and since the 2014, I don't think that I've seen his name involved in anything other than Sabbath. At least not for artists who interest me. I'd be curious if his work on other artists went in this same direction or not.
Not sure why you'd blame Sabbath rather than the mastering "engineer". Are we sure the members were even involved? Listen to Chris Bellman's vinyl cut of Vol. 4 and then listen to Pearce's. You'll notice very quickly that the soundstage is completely off on Pearce's, and it simply sounds like a cheaply done digital job. Not the most offensive thing you'll hear, but compare one song and you'll know you'll never want to listen to Pearce's cut again. But Pearce has done much else other than Sabbath including the Voivod and Kreator campaigns. While the recordings are certainly not audiophile, Andy Pearce compressed those to the point of being impossible to turn up loud. And it's metal, it NEEDS to be loud. He could easily have improved upon the mastering but just made it worse. In any case, having seen his name attached this release I was worried it was going to be bad, and everyone here is saying it is, so he hasn't done anything to change my mind about his work.
I am, because our fellow member @Claus, who is usually well informed, confirmed (in a series of posts scattered over the Vol. 4 SDE thread and this thread) that they were, and said that Pearce was mostly following orders from record company, producer, and Geezer and Tony. I don't collect LPs, and I don't have needle drops of the pressings you mentioned. However, if you can specify which Pearce remaster of Vol. 4 you mean (as I explained, there's not just one), I can tell you what I think about it, since I am familiar with all of them on digital media. That sounds terrible. I don't really listen to Voivod or Kreator, so I am not familiar with those remasters, but the way you describe them, I am pretty sure I would hate them. However, and going back to Sabbath, the 2009-2011 remasters all have only minor compression or none at all, and the 2012 remasters have none. So it is very obvious that, whatever mastering pattern(s) Pearce may have followed outside of Sabbath, he has followed a different approach (or rather: several different approaches) with Sabbath. (And I am saying that even though I strongly dislike (so far) all of his 2021 remasters and five of his eight 2012 remasters.) Look, did you really read my post? I already acknowledged, and I quote myself, that "I am very unhappy with some of of Pearce's Sabbath remasters too", that "the 2012 series was mostly bad (very bright-sounding)" and that "the 2021 series so far has sounded just weird (see here for an overview)". If you read this thread and the Vol. 4 SDE thread, you'll notice that I am one of the people who have constantly criticized these remasters (so much so that some people got really furious because they somehow personally felt offended by said criticism). So there's absolutely no need to convince me that they are bad. I have only disagreed with you on one specific point, and that's your claim that Andy Pearce's mastering work is consistently bad. I am only familiar with his work for Sabbath, and the only thing that can truly said about that in general is that it is very, very inconsistent. I recommend that you check out the 2009-2011 Sanctuary CD releases of Vol. 4, Master of Reality, the debut album or any Sabbath 1980ies album from Heaven and Hell through The Eternal Idol. If those are too dark-sounding for your taste, try the 2016 Rhino CD releases of Master of Reality or Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. None of those have a lot, if any, added compression. Have you listened to any of them and found them to be amateurish?
