Black Sabbath - Heaven & Hell/Mob Rules - 2021 Deluxe Edit.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Deuce66, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    That’s fair.
     
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  2. Partyslammer

    Partyslammer Lord Of The New Church

    I have 3 original release copies of the US Warners vinyl of Mob Rules including the record I bought when the album was first released. I don't know if I'm just unlucky or what, but all 3 copies have a series of identical ticks early on during ES5150 that just bug the EFF outta me. Otherwise, the albums are all in excellent shape and sound great.

    I almost bought what I thought was a reissue of Mob Rules about 4-5 years ago but it turned out to be a bootleg, much like the similar reissue of Born Again (that I did buy).
     
  3. Thank you very much for your work!
     
  4. danielbravo

    danielbravo Senior Member

    Location:
    Caracas. DC
    Thanks for sumarize...
    This sums up the whole thing at the Portland show, something I had already noticed yesterday when I saw the note from the Facebook site. In all honesty it seems to me that it is a release for completists or for those who do not have those "bonus tracks" previously available. A well done edition of this Portland show, similar to the Hammersmith show, would be more interesting than what they offer.
     
  5. 99thfloor

    99thfloor Senior Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    Since the Sabbath catalogue is still divided between big labels for different territories those markets also continue to get completely different releases with no collaboration (more like competition), each label kind of pretending the other's releases don't exist. Theoretically the old Deluxes were not available in North America, they were released in Europe only.

    There were Deluxe editions for these album released by Universal (later reissued by BMG when they took over the rights), this is Warner doing their versions.

    So consequently since the rights are separated for the different markets those bonus tracks seem to count as "unreleased" in North America.
     
  6. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    No remixes of Nassau Coliseum 1980, or Dallas, San Antonio or Seattle 1982?
     
  7. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    This Portland track sounds like a live mixed board tape. If it were mixed from multitrack, the mix wouldn't be this wonky.
     
  8. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Hard pass for me unless the main album mastering for Heaven and Hell turns out to be great (I'm already fully satisfied with Mob Rules on older CDs). But if my hopes for that were any lower, I'd need a shovel to find them.
     
  9. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I wish they had put the full Portland show on the bonus disc for one and the Hammersmith as a bonus disc for the other that way at least it would flow better.
     
  10. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    Hard pass, if I feel like listening to Portland I’ll stream it.
     
  11. GizmoKSX

    GizmoKSX Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    As 99thfloor said above, I agree that these are probably happening so the US labels have their own release, regardless whether the content is worth re-purchase for those who already have the UK versions. Joe from Black Sabbath Online says these are Andy Pearce remasters. I don't know if that means brand new, or just his remasters from the UK versions (which would be great, as those are very good, and I think folks here would prefer over the old US Rules of Hell remasters). I listened to just a little of the "Heaven and Hell" live B-side, and it's a little brighter-sounding than the version on the UK Deluxe Edition; I don't know if it's a new transfer or just new EQ. It could be that just the bonus tracks (or some of them) are being newly remastered, or the whole albums.

    I'd also like to join in hoping for more news on Tony Martin-era rereleases. Andy Pearce has remastered every Black Sabbath album from 1970–1992 except most of the Martin albums (The Eternal Idol was rereleased; so we're missing Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes, Cross Purposes Live, and Forbidden). It'd be nice just to let him finish the job so we have their full retro discography (I'm not expecting the later stuff) under one good mastering engineer, readily available again. Even the more obscure albums got the deluxe edition bonus disc treatment. I think the issue is the missing albums being on a defunct record label, which if I remember right is up to Tony Iommi to sort out. He talked about remixing Forbidden which would be a start, but I don't think there's been news about that for a couple years.
     
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  12. jeffreybh

    jeffreybh Gunter Gleiben Glauchen Globen

    Location:
    Texas
    The Hammersmith show is essential. I bought the original Rhino Handmade release and was shocked when it sold out within a day if I recall correctly. Was glad to see others got a second chance when it was included in the 2010 Mob Rules Deluxe! (which I also picked up) . A shame the full thing isn't being included in these new 2021 releases and the tracks that are included are split across the two different releases. If you don't own it, get it! It rocks! I'll probably pick up the new one for the Portland show but I don't hold any hope for it rivaling Hammersmith. For anyone interested, I did a quantity scan with light retouching (levels, specking noise removal, sharpening, etc)
    Embedded below, enjoy!

    [​IMG]
     
  13. jimhb

    jimhb Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO, USA
    Does anyone know who cut the vinyl and where it is being pressed?
     
  14. Purple

    Purple Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    There's a dedicated thread here about it. The Forbidden remix is in the can since at least May 2020 (?) and awaiting a "suitable" time for release. This could be years away with, frankly, all these Dio "retreads" coming out. (Harsher words spring to mind). I could see a desperately needed Dio Sabbath retrospective and a tribute album next on tap. In any case, the word "remix" augurs thoughts of, say, a Vapor Trails-like transformation but I suspect Forbidden Remixed will be, tragically, yet another lost opportunity.
     
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  15. So BMG are going to release these as well - which is probably good for me but still kind of stupid given that the 2010 Deluxe Editions are available from BMG too. I am wondering if they'll have used American or European tapes for the new remasters.

    The Rhino description quoted in the first post of this thread clearly states "Disc One: Original Album (2021 Remaster)" for both releases. So the original albums were newly remastered by Andy Pearce again.

    You are right. Yet the division is not as clear-cut anymore as it was before. Thus, European masterings from European tapes (the 2012 Pearce remasters, originally carried out for the 2012 Vinyl Collection) were used for the 2014 Rhino HDtracks and 2016 Rhino CD editions as well as the European Ten Year War releases. The Paranoid 2020 50th Anniversary set (in fact a reissue of the 2016 Super Deluxe) was available by both Sanctuary and Rhino. So, apparently, are the upcoming Vol. 4 Super Deluxe set and these HaH and MR releases. So, while each label is indeed kind of pretending the other's releases don't exist, as you pointed out, they are now at the same time often collaborating. Often, but not always, obviously. Of course, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
     
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  16. old school

    old school Senior Member

    I can’t think of a good reason to buy these again. The Portland show is not good quality I will pass on these. Besides if Pearce comes close to what he did in 2010 is not a given. Those 2010 deluxe editions sound really good being a dr of 13-14.
     
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  17. DR14? Heaven and Hell 2010 Sanctuary Disc one has DR13, Mob Rules 2010 Sanctuary Disc 1 has DR11.
     
  18. old school

    old school Senior Member

    On the Dynamic Range Database for Heaven and Hell Disc one has 13 12 14 you did not see that? Mob Rules 11 10 13.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  19. Yeah sorry, I mixed them up: HaH has average DR13, MR has average DR11, not the other way around. My point was: no DR14 as you said in your first post. (Which isn't bad at all, I doubt DR14 would sound better. Just trying to be factually accurate.)
     
  20. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member

    Location:
    NH
    I don't think I've heard the Portland show before. I thought parts of it were included on the Live Evil album, but that can't be the case. Why does it sound so bad? Is it an audience recording or something?
     
  21. As already pointed out, the Portland show is previously unreleased, so it's no surprise you haven't heard it before. It was never mentioned as a source (or possible source) of Live Evil either. Your question whether it was an audience recording or why it sounds so bad has already been answered:
    It is most definitely not an audience recording. Many people seem to believe that audience recording = bad sound, soundboard recording = great sound. That's simply not true, there are great-sounding audience and awful-sounding soundboard recordings, though of course the latter tend to be better. What we have here is a rough soundboard recording.
     
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  22. Smackswell

    Smackswell Kossoff & Ralphs LA 76

    Location:
    Baile Atha Cliath
    But isn't that what is happening these days, the label sources the best quality boots, claim rights, doctor them up and do this sort of thing. I've spent the last 10 years "reviewing" a lot and so I don't need to buy again. If I haven't got it by now then I probably don't need it. But then, something always crop up.
     
  23. Doesn't really apply here though as the Portland show has never been circulating as a bootleg. Nor has Live at Hammersmith Odeon (except as audience recordings, and they didn't use those).
     
  24. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Just came across this thread. Reading in disbelief the many reports of the Portland recording sounding crap, even like an audience recording.

    You guys are nuts. :laugh:
     
  25. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member

    Location:
    NH
    Thanks. I hadn't followed the thread as closely as I should, so I missed the info on the Portland show. I agree with you on bootlegs. There are some good sounding audience ones from The Mob Rules tour and really for many Sabbath tours. If the recording equipment is good, if the location in the venue is good and the sound is good, you can often get a more satisfying sound than something offered by a soundboard.
     
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